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Simulating High Speed Driving


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#1 elvworks

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 12:24 AM

(Thank you all...)

The low budget feature I will be working on involves a really (supposedly fast car). It will be filmed in DV, most likely the DVX. I don't have the option of over or under cranking with this camera to create a smooth slow or fast motion, so what are other ways to simulate speed?

I mostly will be using perception to show speed to keep things safe (fake speedometer, camera angles, etc.) . I don't forsee any real driving passed 85 mph, but the speeds in question are between 110-185 miles per hour. So I was curious if anyone else have dealt with this same issue or have any ideas.

Also, the end result of this movie is DVD, so would 30p be the best bet for this best picture?

I guess to at least have slow motion, I could shoot the possible slow motion shots in 60i and slow it down in post , would it mix nicely with the 30p?

Thank you in advance for your time and insight, :D

Rick
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#2 Gordon Highland

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 01:32 AM

The easiest way to simulate fast motion in-camera is with a long lens. Same way they do chase scenes on foot, using the far end of the zoom. It compresses the frame and details move by much faster in a blur. Also, vibrations, exaggerated by the instability of the zoom. Of course, the insert cutaways you've already suggested, fast edits, etc. The sounds of the engine at high RPMs, changing to slightly different engine "notes" with each cut go a long way to supporting the illusion. Check out the BMW short films from a couple of years ago for good examples.
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#3 Thomas Worth

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 11:54 AM

In my opinion, your best bet would be to shoot the movie 24pA, with the slow motion stuff being shot at 60i. This affords you two opportunities: One, your movie can be encoded for DVD as 24p (giving you the same spatial advantage as 30p), and two, your slow motion sequences will be slower when played back at 24p instead of 30p.

Just make sure your NLE supports 24pA capture and true 24p editing. Avid Xpress does, starting at version 4 or 4.5, and Final Cut at version 4, I believe. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
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#4 elvworks

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 12:13 PM

Thank you Gordon and Thomas,



(Note: Originally this was supposed to be shot on super 16)

I much rather have 24pa for a theatrical frame rate and for all the things you mentioned, but I was wondering about flickering. Do you encounter much flickering on the DVX when finishing to DVD?

Thanks,
Rick
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#5 Thomas Worth

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 03:26 PM

I much rather have 24pa for a theatrical frame rate and for all the things you mentioned, but I was wondering about flickering. Do you encounter much flickering on the DVX when finishing to DVD?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "flickering." 24p projects I encode to DVD look just like any other movie on DVD. Your idea of flickering may be because of footage you've seen shot at the wrong shutter speed. When shooting 24p, the normal shutter speed is 1/48 sec (not 1/24, by the way). As the shutter speed increases, the footage tends to get "strobe-like," or flickery (the Saving Private Ryan look).

24 frames per second has a more stuttery or jittery appearance than 30 frames per second, but in a positive way. Viewers associate the 24fps look with movies. 30fps looks closer to a movie than 60i, of course, but it's still not quite there.
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#6 elvworks

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 03:42 PM

Great info Thomas,

Yeah, the flickering was something I heard about. Now that you mentioned it, it did have to do with a problem with the shutter speed.

24pa is the way to go!!!

Hey, thanks alot for your help, I really appreciate it.

All the best,
Rick
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#7 Tenolian Bell

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 10:47 PM

True 24 frames per second is bellow the threshhold of persistent vision. Meaning the eye is no longer tricked into seeing motion and begins to see a flip book of still images.

Which is why in display and projection you are not really viewing 24 fps.
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