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Ang 17 - 68mm F 2.5 with view tube


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#1 steve hyde

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 10:43 PM

... I just picked up a late model Filmo DR and an Angenieux 17 -68 with a side view tube for TTL composition in non-relex cameras. This is my intro 16mm camera (I shoot a lot of Super 8) Eventually I might opt for an Ikonoskop A-cam S16 and I hope this lens will be a solution to the lens limitations on the Ikonoskop.

I have been told that the c - mount Ang 17 - 68 covers super 16. Is this true?

Also, for those familiar with using reflex lenses please share your experiences using one. What are the pros and cons of this type of lens?

Thanks in advance,

Steve


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#2 Herb Montes

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 07:52 AM

I have used this zoom on my Bolex M4 and it's a nice one. It has less pincushioning than other zooms especially when zooming in at its closest focus. I got it mounted on one of my Kodak K100 cameras right now. I would like to know too if it can cover Super 16mm since I want to convert one of my Bolexes in the future.
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#3 Ian Marks

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 02:10 PM

I have also heard that this lens covers Super-16, and given that its widest focal length is 17mm, this is completely plausible. Other zooms which start at around this point - The Angenieux 15-150, the Pan Cinor 17-85, the Vario-Switar 16-100 - generally do cover Super-16 throughout their range. Maybe you can locate someone with a Super-16 modified Eclair in your area - these cameras have C-mounts and their ground glasses show an area outside the taking area, so determining if a lens has enough coverage (or just enough) is pretty straightforward.

I once used a different Angenieux with built-in finder (a 12-120) and it had only a central spot for focusing. I think this was a tiny circular patch of ground glass, with the rest of viewfinder being an aerial image, presumably to maximize brightness. I don't know if they're all that way. This arrangement made it harder to judge depth of field compared to an all-ground glass viewfinder.

This may a relatively minor inconvenience to you, especially if your lens does cover Super-16. One of these on a Super-16 modified Kodak K100 would be a very cool little camera with a form factor similar to the Ikonoskop, but with reflex viewing. Cheaper too. Just my .02.
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#4 steve hyde

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 04:01 PM

...hey thanks for the input on this.

When I get the lens I will take it down to my local rental house and test it on the Ikonoskop.

Steve
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#5 Herb Montes

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 09:58 PM

I have also heard that this lens covers Super-16, and given that its widest focal length is 17mm, this is completely plausible. Other zooms which start at around this point - The Angenieux 15-150, the Pan Cinor 17-85, the Vario-Switar 16-100 - generally do cover Super-16 throughout their range. Maybe you can locate someone with a Super-16 modified Eclair in your area - these cameras have C-mounts and their ground glasses show an area outside the taking area, so determining if a lens has enough coverage (or just enough) is pretty straightforward.

I once used a different Angenieux with built-in finder (a 12-120) and it had only a central spot for focusing. I think this was a tiny circular patch of ground glass, with the rest of viewfinder being an aerial image, presumably to maximize brightness. I don't know if they're all that way. This arrangement made it harder to judge depth of field compared to an all-ground glass viewfinder.

This may a relatively minor inconvenience to you, especially if your lens does cover Super-16. One of these on a Super-16 modified Kodak K100 would be a very cool little camera with a form factor similar to the Ikonoskop, but with reflex viewing. Cheaper too. Just my .02.


I was mostly thinking of having one of my three Bolexes converted but I wonder if the K100 can be made Super16. Especially the single lens mount model I have the zoom on. If it is possible it would be more compact than a Super16 Bolex. I have also fitted my Pan Cinor 17-85 to this camera.

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Edited by Herb Montes, 21 February 2006 - 10:00 PM.

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#6 Ian Marks

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 12:45 PM

Sweet. I have a K100 with a f3.8 "compact" Pan Cinor with built-in finder that is very similar. If you find out who can modify my Kodak to Super-16, please post it here. I'd like to give it a try.
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#7 Herb Montes

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 01:45 PM

Sweet. I have a K100 with a f3.8 "compact" Pan Cinor with built-in finder that is very similar. If you find out who can modify my Kodak to Super-16, please post it here. I'd like to give it a try.


Is yours anyting like my Pan Cinor (the one in the middle in the picture below)?

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As you can see it's bigger than the Angenieux on the right. On the left is a Sopelem compact zoom which currently resides on my Bolex Rex5.
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#8 Ian Marks

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 02:36 PM

I actually have one of each - the faster, bigger one like the one in the middle of your picture, and the compact one to the left, except that mine has a built-in finder like its big brother. Same focal length range, but smaller maximum aperture and very compact - even smaller than the Angenieux.

Right now I've got the big one on a Bolex M5 and the smaller one on a K100. I'm thinking of putting the smaller one on a Bolex M4 and trying it with a Kowa anamorphic lens I've picked up. The little zoom takes smallish Series 7 filters, so it matches up pretty well with the back of the anamorphic lens. From the photo, it looks like the Angenieux also takes Series 7 filters.
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#9 Herb Montes

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 05:29 PM

I actually have one of each - the faster, bigger one like the one in the middle of your picture, and the compact one to the left, except that mine has a built-in finder like its big brother. Same focal length range, but smaller maximum aperture and very compact - even smaller than the Angenieux.

Right now I've got the big one on a Bolex M5 and the smaller one on a K100. I'm thinking of putting the smaller one on a Bolex M4 and trying it with a Kowa anamorphic lens I've picked up. The little zoom takes smallish Series 7 filters, so it matches up pretty well with the back of the anamorphic lens. From the photo, it looks like the Angenieux also takes Series 7 filters.


My big Pan Cinor came with my M5. I also have an M4 along with a Rex5. I have modified the Angenieux to use 49mm threaded filters by adapting a filter ring to the front. The big Pan Cinor uses series 8 filters.
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#10 Ian Marks

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 05:55 PM

Yup, one nice thing about the Pan Cinors is that they can take inexpensive filters. I found that since almost nobody uses the Series 7 or 8 filters, they're cheap cheap cheap. Adapting them to standard photo sizes is a good idea too. By the way, I like that custom zoom lever!
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#11 Herb Montes

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 10:27 PM

Yup, one nice thing about the Pan Cinors is that they can take inexpensive filters. I found that since almost nobody uses the Series 7 or 8 filters, they're cheap cheap cheap. Adapting them to standard photo sizes is a good idea too. By the way, I like that custom zoom lever!


If you're talking about the knob on the Pan Cinor when I hold the zoom in the left hand while holding the Bolex pistol grip with the right hand my middle finger on the left hand rests on the knob. I can zoom by just moving the finger keeping the camera steady since I'm cradling it with both hands. I got the knob at a local hardware store, it's hard plastic with a threaded stud in it.
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#12 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 23 February 2006 - 02:32 PM

Right now I've got the big one on a Bolex M5 and the smaller one on a K100. I'm thinking of putting the smaller one on a Bolex M4 and trying it with a Kowa anamorphic lens I've picked up. The little zoom takes smallish Series 7 filters, so it matches up pretty well with the back of the anamorphic lens. From the photo, it looks like the Angenieux also takes Series 7 filters.


---We tried that along time ago with the Kern 17-85 and the Angie & Kowa 16H.

The widest one could go was around 25mm. Not as nice as 17mm would have been but still more usable than 32mm.

I'm pretty sure the angie took series VII.

---LV
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#13 Ian Marks

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Posted 23 February 2006 - 02:56 PM

---We tried that along time ago with the Kern 17-85 and the Angie & Kowa 16H.

The widest one could go was around 25mm. Not as nice as 17mm would have been but still more usable than 32mm.

I'm pretty sure the angie took series VII.

---LV



Ah, I was afraid of that. . . and your Kern 17-85 is very similar to my Pan Cinor. But from what I can see, if I'm limited to 25mm as my widest focal length, when the image is "unsqueezed" in post I'll get the equivalent field of view of a 12.5mm on the horizontal (the anamorphic is a 2x, though I'd prefer 1.5x). That sounds pretty good to me, considering the small investment I've made in this stuff!

I do think that a very wide aspect ratio (2.66:1 in this case) forces one to adopt a different aesthetic when framing, and it could be that losing the really wide shots wouldn't be so bad. I thought I'd also try the Kowa on my Rex 4 with a shorter lens - a 13mm Canon - which is small enough to park inside the rear rim of the anamorphic lens. I need to gather all this stuff together one of these nights and experiment. . .
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#14 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 23 February 2006 - 03:31 PM

I do think that a very wide aspect ratio (2.66:1 in this case) forces one to adopt a different aesthetic when framing, and it could be that losing the really wide shots wouldn't be so bad. I thought I'd also try the Kowa on my Rex 4 with a shorter lens - a 13mm Canon - which is small enough to park inside the rear rim of the anamorphic lens. I need to gather all this stuff together one of these nights and experiment. . .


---Other anamorphics only gave 32-35mm on the zooms.

13mm is too wide. We looked around for 16/17mm lenses that would work.
The one that worked was a 17mm f/2.5 Solior that had the front filed away. Not really the best of lenses either.

What's funny is that a 38mm on an Olypus Pen FT worked.
& it works fine with a 50mm for 35mm C'Scope.
Richard Garbutt used one on a Nikkor on an eyemo for stunt shots at a rodeo in either 'Shanghai Knights' or 'Shanghai Noon'.

---LV
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#15 Ian Marks

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Posted 23 February 2006 - 04:43 PM

13mm is too wide. We looked around for 16/17mm lenses that would work.
The one that worked was a 17mm f/2.5 Solior that had the front filed away. Not really the best of lenses either.


Hmm. I have a 15mm Angenieux too. Maybe I'll try that. If not, I have a 25mm Canon and 25mm Angenieux - they're both tiny, but much faster than the zoom.
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