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Arri 16m


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#1 3ldfilms

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 11:58 PM

I just bought an Arri 16m package on ebay. I don't really know much about them but I got a good deal and decided to take a chance.

Does anyone have any thoughts/info on this camera? From what I've found online it is like a 16s but with no 100' capability (which would seem to make it smaller and lighter which is fine by me).

It came with some nice extras (like a periscope finder and zeiss lenses) so I'm excited to get it but I'd love to hear people's thought. It was hard to search the boards as it seems to interpret "16M" as the first pat of 16mm.

Is servicing pretty much the same as 16S? Can one upgrade these to Super 16? (I wasn't planning on it but it would be nice to know if the option is there). Do they usually have both standard and bayonet mount on them?

Ed
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 12:24 AM

The Arri 16M was sort of a preliminary step towards the Arri 16BL -- basically like you said, an Arri-S with no internal 100' daylight spool capability more or less. I don't think many "M" cameras were made. I remember reading in an old periodical about the Arri 16Q, which I think was renamed the Arri-16BL.
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#3 Rod Otaviano

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 12:33 AM

Be careful when buying a magazine for the M. It's not the same used on the S. I think the torque motors are different as well. Not 100% sure though.

As for the standard and bayonet mount thing, the Arriflex M comes with three standard mounts only. The Arriflex M/B has one bayonet and two standard mounts.

I think apart from that (and the lack of internal film capacity as you mentioned before) everything else is the same.

For S16 upgrade, you might wanna talk to Bruce McNaughton from Aranda Film

http://www.arandafilm.com.au
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#4 Patrick Neary

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 01:14 AM

Be careful when buying a magazine for the M. It's not the same used on the S. I think the torque motors are different as well. Not 100% sure though.


the 16M doesn't use a torque motor, the mags are geared. There are 400' and small 200' mags but the 200-footers are harder to find. You can put a 12v crystal motor on it without worries about burning up an 8v torque motor, as you would with the "S".

My 1st camera was a 16M and I thought it was great. If you don't have it already, pick up Carleson's "Professional Cameraman's Handbook", it has a good, if small, section on the 16M. :)
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#5 Rik Andino

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 03:39 AM

Is servicing pretty much the same as 16S?
Can one upgrade these to Super 16?
(I wasn't planning on it but it would be nice to know if the option is there).
Do they usually have both standard and bayonet mount on them?

Ed


If you're interested in service for Arri cameras (specifically older cameras, 25 years or more)
You should check out Du-all Camera in NY
They're very good, and they also do a S16 conversion for the Arri S which should work for the Arri M

http://www.duallcame...ces/index.shtml


I'm not completely sure, but I think the Arri M mags are the same as the Arri 16BL mags.
If this is the case you should not have trouble finding magazines for your camera.
Eitherways the good thing about Arri is that it makes many of it's camera accesories backwards compatible.


Good Luck
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#6 Sean Morris

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 04:35 AM

Hi,

A good read for information on 16mm cameras is "The 16mm Camera Book"
by Douglas Underdahl, an excellent source of information on the ARRI S, BL, M, SR, Aatons etc..
and alot of extra info on testing, cleaning, lenses, filters, lightmeters etc..well worth the money :D

Cheers
Sean Morris
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#7 Matt Sandstrom

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 06:21 AM

haha, this is hilarious.

http://www.visualpro...0&Cat=3&Cat2=38

/matt
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#8 Sean Morris

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 06:31 AM

haha, this is hilarious.

http://www.visualpro...0&Cat=3&Cat2=38

/matt



Even more hilarious is using it on the .........

http://www.visualpro...3&Cat=3&Cat2=42

Sean
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#9 Rod Otaviano

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 09:21 AM

I'm not completely sure, but I think the Arri M mags are the same as the Arri 16BL mags.
If this is the case you should not have trouble finding magazines for your camera.


These guys have a magazine for the Arri M:

http://www.filmcamer...accessories.htm
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#10 3ldfilms

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 09:33 AM

My kit has two mags in it so I should be fine for starters.

Though the 1200' mag looks hilarious. I'm surprised the motor is strong enough to move that big of a mag.

It says it comes with a constant speed motor. While I'm sure that's probably not crystal, how much of drift can I expect? I'd like to be able to use the camera for music videos.
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#11 Tim Carroll

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 10:42 AM

It says it comes with a constant speed motor. While I'm sure that's probably not crystal, how much of drift can I expect? I'd like to be able to use the camera for music videos.


I rebuild the constant speed motors for those cameras at my shop and I can set them very accurately, but you must keep two things in mind. First, they require an 8-volt battery pack/power supply, which may or may not come with your camera. Second, they are not crystal sync, so even though they are very consistent, if you have long takes of singers in your music videos that you are trying to sync to pre-recorded music, you are going to have issues with lip sync. If you are using quick cuts, you should be fine.

Tobin sells a crystal sync motor that will work with your camera, the TCS TXM-22A and it runs $895. If you go with a Tobin motor and you want to have dead accurate crystal sync, you may also want to look into getting the rubber motor bushing replaced on the camera, as they get dry and stretched and can slip at the connection with the motor shaft.

-Tim
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#12 Patrick Neary

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 10:46 AM

Hi-

I shot a music video for Seattle jazz guitarist Michael Powers years ago with my 16M and a constant-speed motor, and just for laughs, we let a shot run (in post) just to see how long before we lost sync, and it went a good 2 1/2 minutes (almost the entire piece) before there was a noticeable drift. So they can be pretty consistent! I wouldn't want to shoot with HMIs though...
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#13 3ldfilms

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 10:53 AM

The auction says that the 24fps motor is 110 Volts while the variable one is 8Volts. I assume that means the constant runs on AC?

Ed
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#14 Patrick Neary

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 11:01 AM

yup- I had one of those too- (damn, it's starting to sound like you ended up with my old camera!) it's big and ugly and not very practical, unless you're chained down in a studio. Get the Tobin X-tal motor, you'll be very happy!
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#15 3ldfilms

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 11:08 AM

Ha! Maybe it is!

You can see a pick here http://cgi.ebay.com/.....AMEWN:IT&rd=1

Are the variable speed motors a lot less consistent than the constant speeds?

Is the Tobin X-tal multiple speeds or just 24?
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#16 Patrick Neary

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 11:18 AM

You set the variable speed motor by turning the little ring and watching the tach on the back of the camera, so it really lives up to the name "wild"

look at Tobin Cinema System's website, he has all the info about his motors there-and he might answer your question directly here-

The ebay camera looks like it was better taken care-of than mine!

have fun-
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#17 Tim Carroll

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 12:11 PM

Are the variable speed motors a lot less consistent than the constant speeds?


In the tests I have done, the variable speed motor really drifts. Set it at one speed and it will go faster and slower, very inconsistent. You might not notice it as much looking at the tach on the camera, but when inspected with a strobe, they're all over the map.

-Tim
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#18 Clive Tobin

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 07:30 PM

...look at Tobin Cinema System's website, he has all the info about his motors there-and he might answer your question directly here-...


Your wish is my command. The catalog page for this motor is at http://www.tobincine....com/page5.html . There are 6 or 7 crystal speeds built-in. The 50 FPS speed is not guaranteed unless you use a higher voltage, say 14.4.
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