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Eterna 500


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#1 Aleksandar Bracinac

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 05:33 AM

Hello people,

I've shoot last weekend some commercial on Eterna 500. I have very strange red color in shadows. Guys in lab told me that even chemistry in machine is redish and that thay have the red color every time when they put Fuji in machine. Every time I must use primary CC in Tk to fix that and that cost me a bit of grain and less space to work with colors on daVinci. When we put into the Tk any of Kodak's negative and test 35mm received from Kodak the balance is ok, but with Eterna - NO.

In samples I did simulate the red color we had in Tk.

Anyone can help with that? Maybe Tk showing bad colors with Fuji because Kodak has brought and serviced that machine for our lab? :D

tk1.jpg

tk2.jpg


Thank you,

Aleksandar Bracinac

Edited by Aleksandar Bracinac, 24 February 2006 - 05:35 AM.

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#2 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 07:45 AM

Strange. I just did a music vid on Eterna 500 and had no such problems. It was also shot at very low light levels and even pushed one stop to 1000ASA. Maybe the lab screwed it up?
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#3 Andy Sparaco SOC

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 08:06 AM

Anyone can help with that? Maybe Tk showing bad colors with Fuji because Kodak has brought and serviced that machine for our lab? :D



Looks like the film has been flashed at a low level. Like heat or xray fogging to me.
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#4 Aleksandar Bracinac

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 08:17 AM

To be more precise, not only mine projects has red in shadows. All Fuji stock they have processed has the same problem :blink:
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#5 Stephen Williams

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 08:55 AM

To be more precise, not only mine projects has red in shadows. All Fuji stock they have processed has the same problem :blink:


Hi,

I would like to see Kodak test film on the telecine first. Everytime something does not look correct I insist on putting up test film. It's usually clear that there is a problem with the telecine.

Stephen
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#6 Aleksandar Bracinac

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 08:59 AM

Hi Stephen,

I've put Kodak test film into the telecine and the colors look very good.
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#7 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 10:58 AM

Hi Stephen,

I've put Kodak test film into the telecine and the colors look very good.


It could be that the Fuji film is more sensitive to something in the process that is causing an elevated level of fog in the red-sensitive layers.
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#8 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 11:07 AM

Obviously the lab is doing something wrong. Why not take your film to another lab for a comparison? No reason to pick a film stock based on which ones your labs can't screw up, afterall.
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#9 John Holland

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 11:49 AM

Dont belive Kodak guy , Mr Mullen is correct lab f- up . try another one if you can . john holland .
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#10 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 11:54 AM

Oh, I think John could be right (he know more about this than any of us)... but obviously the lab shouldn't be processing it in such a way because I'm sure even the Kodak stock therefore isn't being processed in the best manner possible if it's on the edge of causing a color layer to fog like that.

Any reputable lab would be calling Fuji and sending samples to them, perhaps even getting a Fuji technician out to the lab. Labs talk to Kodak and Fuji technical reps all the time.
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#11 Dan Goulder

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 12:07 PM

Since the red band appears in the same place in both samples, the problem is doubtfully a result of the photochemical process. If their telecine checks out okay, then they've just been developing the image you've been handing them. My guess is something happened to the stock somewhere between the time it left the Fuji factory and the time it was given to the lab for processing.
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#12 John Holland

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 12:14 PM

David , bit unfair , that comment , just have been let down by Kodak over the years , so not a great supporter , miss Agfa . john holland
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#13 Stephen Williams

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 12:56 PM

No reason to pick a film stock based on which ones your labs can't screw up, afterall.


David,

I often choose a stock for that reason!

Stephen
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#14 Tenolian Bell

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 02:22 PM

In the AC article about Munich, Kaminiski says he loves Fuji stock but doesn't use it too often because most American labs are calibrated for Kodak stocks.
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#15 sinisa.kukic

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 03:50 PM

i shot eterna for the last few projects i did. processed normal, pushed one stop, some scenes even two stops. no red color shift. the colors held up well even with a two stop push. had everything processed at fotokem.
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#16 Mike Williamson

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 04:48 PM

I shot some tests of Eterna for a feature last year comparing regular and push one processing, and the pushed stock picked up a SLIGHT magenta bias in the skin tones that I didn't like, nothing like what you're seeing however. I agree with David that there's something going wrong at the lab, I've seen Eterna 500 sent to three different labs now and I haven't seen anything like what you're getting.
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#17 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 04:55 PM

Dont belive Kodak guy , Mr Mullen is correct lab f- up . try another one if you can . john holland .


All I said was that the Fuji may be more sensitive to something in the lab's process that is causing some fogging. Kodak tries to design its films to be relatively insensitive to process variations.
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#18 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 08:23 PM

Obviously the lab is doing something wrong. Why not take your film to another lab for a comparison? No reason to pick a film stock based on which ones your labs can't screw up, afterall.

I have to agree. (David REALLY knows what he is doing, so I almost always learn something from his posts)

Fuji says right on the data sheet that they expect the process defined by Kodak is the one their film should run in. If you have to use that lab, ask them nicely to talk to the Fuji technical rep. I ma sure that Fuji would see it in their best interest to get to the bottom of the problem.

I don't know is fuji offers test strips to run in the ECN2 Process, but I would hazard a guess that the Kodak test strips may turn out to be off if the Fuji does not process right. Again the Fuji rep can quickly compare the labs records. If Kodak does supply the lab, I would not be surprised if the Kodak Rep might not be interested, as if the process is a bit off, the same problem may start to show up on Kodak stock if it drifts out of spec just a bit more.

NOW the posibility that the stock may have been cooked or other wise damaged has to be considered. Does Fuji have an office in your country? Did you get the film directly from them, or though a third party? IS their a posibility that the film might have been exposed to high temperatures etc.?

Can you shoot a test roll (even a few feet) with a colour chart and grey scale and ask the lab to run that to see if the process is still off?
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#19 Aleksandar Bracinac

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 04:34 PM

I will send a piece of the same negative in other lab and I will see what will happen. I think that is the best way to start now. I have another shooting in few weeks and I don't want to play with colors again.


Thanks a lot!

Aleksandar
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#20 Aleksandar Bracinac

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 05:03 AM

Laurent, are you serious? :D

The pictures are split-screen between the original film and corrected in Tk :)


Cheers,
Alex
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