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#1 Matthew Day

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 07:52 AM

Hi, I'm shooting on super 8 (with a non-crystal synch camera) but I'll be recording sound as well on a portable DAT recorder using a slate. I'll be hoping to synch it up in FCP on my powerbook G4. My question is,how do I get the DAT sound into my laptop? Could I have the tapes cloned onto mini-dv and firewire them in that way via my camcorder??
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#2 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 08:44 AM

Hi,

Find a DAT deck with an optical output (not uncomon) and a computer with an optical input, or a DAT deck with AES/EBU output and couple it up to the S/PDIF input on a suitable computer's sound card. You may need to find or build an XLR to phono cable to achieve this. AES/EBU and S/PDIF are not electrically identical and this may not always work.

Of course neither of these methods will get you timecode, but if the camera's not crystal sync that'll be the least of your problems.

Phil
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#3 Matthew Day

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 10:08 AM

Hi,

Find a DAT deck with an optical output (not uncomon) and a computer with an optical input, or a DAT deck with AES/EBU output and couple it up to the S/PDIF input on a suitable computer's sound card. You may need to find or build an XLR to phono cable to achieve this. AES/EBU and S/PDIF are not electrically identical and this may not always work.

Of course neither of these methods will get you timecode, but if the camera's not crystal sync that'll be the least of your problems.

Phil


umm...huh? perhaps DAT is not for me.
Is there not a sound capturing device that's perhaps firewire compatible or usb that would best work specifically with a mac powerbook g4's existing inputs?? Plug in and play type of thing. For the most part i expect to be using it for atmos with only a little dialogue.
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#4 Rachel Oliver

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 10:24 AM

umm...huh? perhaps DAT is not for me.
Is there not a sound capturing device that's perhaps firewire compatible or usb that would best work specifically with a mac powerbook g4's existing inputs?? Plug in and play type of thing. For the most part i expect to be using it for atmos with only a little dialogue.



Hi;

OK how about using a dv camera with XLR inputs and manual audio control to capture sound... Simply plug in a decent mic and think of it as a digital audio recorder. Set cam to 16bit audio and you can get decent results that will seemlesly transfer via firewire to your G4. If you have a later model G4 then it has a mini jack in, you can always go the analog route from DAT to G4 using this method.

Olly
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#5 Andy Sparaco SOC

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 11:04 AM

You might consider taking audio from the line out of the DAT and pluging in to the audio inputs of the computer. You can use the editing program or a dedicated audio program to digitize the audio.

As Phil mentioned without a crystal controlled camera the picture will drift as the load on the motor and battery changes.

You are likely to be doing a lot of audio editing to match the audio to the picture. Since the speed of the motor will vary and not be linear you will not be able to dial in a percentage correction in an audio editing program.


The Time Code aspect of the DAT will not help you.

Using a DV camera as an audio recorder is a workable solution-why bother with Super8 at all?

Tascam makes a USB based "front end"which plugs into the usb port and have XLR/Line in and mixing/EQ abilities. There are others for more/ less money


Best of luck
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#6 Chris Burke

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 11:31 AM

Hi, I'm shooting on super 8 (with a non-crystal synch camera) but I'll be recording sound as well on a portable DAT recorder using a slate. I'll be hoping to synch it up in FCP on my powerbook G4. My question is,how do I get the DAT sound into my laptop? Could I have the tapes cloned onto mini-dv and firewire them in that way via my camcorder??



Several questions back to you:

How long is the finished film going to be? Give me a ball park length.


Are you renting or buying your sound equipment? If renting, rent a digital recorder, compact flash, hard drive or what ever. You can import that audio very easily into your computer. With the use of a slate (be sure to do head and tail slates at each take) you can very easily sync up your audio. It will take some time and is a big headache. But don't loose heart.

If you are buying a recorder, what is your budget? You can spend a grand on the Tascam HD-P2, this is a good price compared to DAT. It records to compact flash and has timecode, XLR in and out, digital in and out, basically, the best of all worlds. If you can't afford that, go for the Sony Hi MD, I guess they sound pretty good and can upload to a computer very easily as well, so no generational loss. With the sony you want to use a Beach Box so you can connect XLR inputs to a mini jack.


Now back to my first question about length. this is the most important part. How long are your pieces of dialogue? If really short and infrequent, you can very easily get away with out a sync camera. If on the other hand your film is dialogue driven or even has a normal amount of dialogue like most films, then with a non sync camera, you are going to have such a laborious time syncing everything up in post that you may loose your mind.

What kind of camera are you shooting with? Most better Super 8 cameras ie; Beaulieu, Nizo , Canon etc.. can be made into a sync camera for about $500 US. Sticker shock just hit you, huh? Welcome to filmmaking, a very expensive art form. In the grand scheme of filmmaking, 500 isn't that much, believe it or not. Now given the fact that it can very well take you weeks of work, loads of screaming at the monitor and a massive helping of chaos and misery when you try to sync an entire film form wild sound, $500 spent on getting the camera made sync, doesn't sound that bad. This step, if there is any way you can do it, will save you and your film in the end. I have tried the wild sound sync method, and although it can be done, it is not worth all the work and frustration. Spend the money, or rent a camera that is sync! I can't stress this enough.

Another bit of advice is, get your camera overhauled. It can be done at the same time they are making the crystal mod, this is money well spent as well. If you want to make other sync super 8 films in the future, you already have the equipment and have done it before and will be a lot easier the second time around. With a sync camera, you can also rent it out, if you are into that, or be hired by other up and coming Super 8ers, cause you have a sync camera! I recommend you shoot a test roll, one, and see how that works for you. Simpley multiply the amount of work you did for that one test roll by the total number or carts you end up with and you will have a pretty good idea of what you will be getting into. Good luck! :D


Using a DV camera as an audio recorder is a workable solution-why bother with Super8 at all?


Why not? This is a forum for first time "film makers". Why paint with oil or acrylic? Why sculpt with ice, or wood? Who knows? Why suggest that someone not bother with a particular medium. Many, many people, like myself, shoot Super 8 for it's asthetic, is there a better reason? Film making is not cheap, no matter how you slice it. Why NOT choose a medium that peaks your interest? Look around this website and many others and you will see that Super 8 is enjoying quite a modest renaisance.
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#7 Matthew Day

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 05:20 AM

The film will be no more than 3 minutes with very little synch dialogue - only five lines. I'll be using the on set sound for a guide will get some wild lines while there. I really just want a way of capturing interesting atmos sound etc, that would hook up without fuss to my laptop. I'm not too fussed on having 'best' quality- I like the DIY ethic and everything will be going back out onto mini-dv. I can borrow the DAT recorder but I think maybe a MD recorder could be the way to go! The two cameras both sound like coffee grinders so even if I did have then crystal sync I'm not sure they be able to be in the same room as a mic! but they have been recently serviced and work great. But for me, yes, super 8 is simply an aesthetic choice. I like the look and the feel and also it's restrictive qulities which can lead to some interesting places regards storytelling.
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#8 beanpat

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 03:02 AM

Hi, I'm shooting on super 8 (with a non-crystal synch camera) but I'll be recording sound as well on a portable DAT recorder using a slate. I'll be hoping to synch it up in FCP on my powerbook G4. My question is,how do I get the DAT sound into my laptop? Could I have the tapes cloned onto mini-dv and firewire them in that way via my camcorder??



Have you considered using your laptop to record directly? plug a small mixer or just a mic right into your sound card. there are lots of recording programs available, even free ones.
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#9 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 07:59 AM

Hi,

I would strongly recommend against plugging a mic directly into a laptop - the microphone inputs on most of them are only really designed to be good enough for communications work, web chat, that sort of thing.

However, using a laptop as a recorder is a very feasible option if you can find an external mic amplifier, which may be as simple as plugging the mic into a mic input on a mixer and the mixer's output into the laptop.

One gotcha with this technique is that the power supplies on many laptops have very poor isolation and can make the audio side of the laptop very noisy. Best to run off battery power when you're actually recording a take.

Phil
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#10 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 10:10 AM

I think you can record into iPod with an external mic. Or to one of those new pro dictation recorders that can take an external line in. In both cases the audio is already digitized and can just be transfered to your computer.
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#11 Hal Smith

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 12:18 PM

Have you considered using your laptop to record directly? plug a small mixer or just a mic right into your sound card. there are lots of recording programs available, even free ones.

In this area I am an expert - my "day" business is radio broadcast engineering. If you're going to go direct to laptop I advise using an external soundcard. Laptop sound systems are usually have worse signal-to-noise ratios than the external ones due to all the digital trash inside a computer. There's a large collection of external sound cards made for both Mac and Windows machines. I have experience with the Creative external Audigy and Extigy USB sound boxes for Windows machines, they work very well. For Mac you might look at the Lexicon Lamda ($199) on www.sweetwater.com - I have no direct experience with it but I've used at lot of Lexicon pro gear over the years and always had good luck with it.

Edmond, OK
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#12 Sam Javor

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 09:13 PM

I personally use an Edirol FA-66 on a Linux workstation... it nice... has buit in limiters and is very quiet... more so than my previous Aardvark Q10.

In stead of Creative I would suggest M-Audio... creative is generally disrespected in the home recording world... and generally for pretty good reason :)

The rule of thumb is that if you can buy the soundcard in a regular computer store then it's not acceptable for recording... you should go to a music instrument store like Guitar Center.

then hang out at some home recording forums like http://homerecording.com/bbs/ or http://homerecordingconnection.com and learn how to actualy record audio... though bear in mind that most people at those fourms won't be much use in information on shotgun mics...

another great site is:
http://www.theprojec...m/directory.htm

Edited by zekthedeadcow, 05 March 2006 - 09:15 PM.

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