Jump to content


Photo

Super 8 vs regular 16mm


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 Gary Lemson

Gary Lemson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 155 posts
  • Other
  • Santa Cruz Mountains

Posted 01 March 2006 - 11:25 PM

Hello,

I realize this may be somewhat subjective, but can you folks explain the resolution differences between Super 8 and 16mm running at their respective standard frame rates?

Thanks.
  • 0

#2 Chris Cooke

Chris Cooke
  • Sustaining Members
  • 246 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Lethbridge, AB Canada

Posted 01 March 2006 - 11:43 PM

Hello,

I realize this may be somewhat subjective, but can you folks explain the resolution differences between Super 8 and 16mm running at their respective standard frame rates?

Thanks.


You could fit roughly 4 super 8 frames in one 16mm frame. Therefore (all things being equal) 16mm has roughly 4 times the resolution. Frame rates don't have anything to do with resolution. Although, there are many factors that can affect the appearance of resolution.
  • 0

#3 Gary Lemson

Gary Lemson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 155 posts
  • Other
  • Santa Cruz Mountains

Posted 01 March 2006 - 11:56 PM

You could fit roughly 4 super 8 frames in one 16mm frame. Therefore 16mm has roughly 4 times the resolution. Frame rates don't have anything to do with resolution. Although, there are many factors that can affect the appearance of resolution.


Okay. I'm trying to understand the visual or asthetic differences (Maybe this isn't easily quantified).

Basically, I'm trying to decide whether to go Super 8 or 16mm, or both?? There's a lot of really cool S8 hardware out there. I've been producing television documentaries, and would like to work film into my future projects.

Thanks again.
  • 0

#4 Matt Sandstrom

Matt Sandstrom
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 464 posts
  • Director
  • Stockholm, Sweden

Posted 02 March 2006 - 01:02 AM

You could fit roughly 4 super 8 frames in one 16mm frame.

i know you said roughly and i know how you got that number, but it's only true for regular 8. for super it's almost exactly 3 times?

/matt
  • 0

#5 Scot McPhie

Scot McPhie
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 211 posts

Posted 02 March 2006 - 01:29 AM

I once worked some of this out - see this thread

've been doing a bit of maths lately on frame sizes - based mainly on the figures here
http://www.jtkdev.com/projection.html
this is what I found:

8mm frame size
width: 4.87 mm
height: 3.68 mm
total: 17.92mm sq


Super 8 frame size
width: 5.68 mm
height: 4.23 mm
total: 24.02 mm sq


Super-dooper 8 frame size
width: 6.41 mm
height: 4.23 mm
total: 27.11 mm sq
(based on extra 13% width - quoted here )


16mm cropped to 16:9 frame size
width: 10.26 mm
height: 5.77 mm
total: 59.20 mm sq


Ultra 16mm frame size
width: 11.8 mm
height: 6.23mm
total: 73.5 mm sq
(based on this comparison of 16mm formats )


16mm frame size
width: 10.26 mm
height: 7.49 mm
total: 76.84 mm sq


Super 16 frame size
width: 12.39 mm
height: 7.49 mm
total: 92.80 mm sq

there seems to be some conflicting figures on frame sizes from various sources on the net - so any comments/corrections appreciated - and if there are any mathematical errors - but anyway what does all this mean?

Well for me in no budget land (which is why I started looking at this) I think the cropped 16mm is the best option as it gives you a decent frame size but in a really easy way to get it.

* the cameras are cheaper to buy than Super 16
* no modifications necessary (as in super-dooper 8, or ultra 16 )
* no centreing issues (as in super-dooper 8, or ultra 16 )
* no anamorphic lenses necessary
* steady registration - no Super 8 carts!
* great selection of film stocks
* little or no grain (the sessions I've seen of this in a telecine suite with some of my footage showed no grain using V2 250D)
* the option of a regular print if necessary (though the framing might look funny!)

so anyway there you go - food for thought



Scot
  • 0

#6 Leo Anthony Vale

Leo Anthony Vale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2010 posts
  • Other
  • Pittsburgh PA

Posted 02 March 2006 - 05:36 PM

I once worked some of this out - see [url=http://www.filmshooting.com./scripts/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10972]

Super-dooper 8 frame size
width: 6.41 mm
height: 4.23 mm
total: 27.11 mm sq
(based on extra 13% width - quoted here )


---I followed through the thread on the sooper-dooper 8 frame size.

Your source claims the aspect ratio is nearly 1.66/1.
Do the math. It's 1.515/1.

Pro8 does the same with their extended frame, claiming an aspect ratio of 1.78/1!

Would you buy a used car from any of these people?

---LV
  • 0

#7 Chris Fernando

Chris Fernando
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 148 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera

Posted 02 March 2006 - 05:50 PM

Hello,

I realize this may be somewhat subjective, but can you folks explain the resolution differences between Super 8 and 16mm running at their respective standard frame rates?

Thanks.



Watch something shot in Super 8 then, all things being equal, watch something (ideally the same subject matter) shot in 16. You should then be able to qualify; which may, arguably, be more important then "quantifying" (whatever that means).
  • 0

#8 John Pytlak RIP

John Pytlak RIP

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 3499 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Rochester, NY 14650-1922

Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:28 PM

For film formats, "Size DOES Matter". The film is the same, but four times the image area has four times the information, and requires four times less area magnification (less graininess). It's simple math.
  • 0

#9 Maulubekotofa

Maulubekotofa
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 55 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:57 PM

steadyfilm, depth of field issues and truer film look will be decideing factorsfor going 16mm
  • 0


Metropolis Post

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Abel Cine

Wooden Camera

Aerial Filmworks

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Opal

Paralinx LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

FJS International, LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Willys Widgets

CineLab

Technodolly

Ritter Battery

Rig Wheels Passport

Glidecam

Tai Audio

The Slider

Visual Products

CineTape

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Visual Products

Willys Widgets

FJS International, LLC

Glidecam

Technodolly

Ritter Battery

rebotnix Technologies

Wooden Camera

Rig Wheels Passport

The Slider

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Metropolis Post

Aerial Filmworks

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Opal

CineTape

Paralinx LLC

Abel Cine

Tai Audio

CineLab