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#1 Alex Haspel

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 09:40 AM

i was watching irreversible for the 3rd time and unlike the first two attempts where i was constantly paralized by the movie itself( which rarely happens), i was finally able to try keeping an eye on some of the technical aspects of it.

and i wondered how they did the outdoor night stuff. like just before monica belucci's character enters the passage or when vincent cassel and albert dupontel harass that transvestite on the sidestreet with all the hookers. shadow-wise it looks like the light was really coming from the streetlights...
so does anyone know how they did that? did they beef up the existing streetlights or did they fudge by somehow putting units behind/over the existing lights..??

i don't know about paris but vienna's lighter streets are about a t1.0 to 1.2 at 24fps/500asa ...
and since they shot on super16 and the movie looks nothing like it grain-wise i suppose they must have done some lighting in order to achieve slight overexposure, no?
and there also was BenoƮt Debie credited as ligting designer and someone else as gaffer. and i suppose they didn't need a gaffer for setting up practical floor lamps in the interiour scenes....

so if anyone knows...

please help me allay my curiosity.

thanks in advance,

Edited by haspel, 03 March 2006 - 09:48 AM.

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#2 Thomas Worth

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 08:59 PM

i don't know about paris but vienna's lighter streets are about a t1.0 to 1.2 at 24fps/500asa ...
and since they shot on super16 and the movie looks nothing like it grain-wise i suppose they must have done some lighting in order to achieve slight overexposure, no?

They shot some of the movie Super-16, but I believe most of it was Super-35 with an anamorphic extraction. I don't know whether the extraction was done digitally or optically, but I do know there's a bunch of visual effects so at least some of the film was scanned.

Most of the film was shot wide, so it's possible they could have shot at T2 or lower and pushed in processing. With wider lenses, the depth of field is greater so even shooting wide open would keep much of the scene in focus.
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#3 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 12:49 PM

They shot some of the movie Super-16, but I believe most of it was Super-35 with an anamorphic extraction. I don't know whether the extraction was done digitally or optically, but I do know there's a bunch of visual effects so at least some of the film was scanned.


---The AC article, which is not in the webby archives, says it was all S16 and transferred to HD and printed out from that.

Lots of short shots were digitally stung together into seeming ly lengthier shots.

---LV
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#4 Thomas Worth

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 10:51 PM

The AC article, which is not in the webby archives, says it was all S16 and transferred to HD and printed out from that.

I checked IMDB, and under "Technical Details" it mentions it being shot Super-16 and Super-35, using "Technovision" cameras, which is a 2-perf "scope" format (i.e. Techniscope). That's interesting that they "scoped" Super-16 footage. I can imagine how grainy that would be.
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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 10:57 PM

I checked IMDB, and under "Technical Details" it mentions it being shot Super-16 and Super-35, using "Technovision" cameras, which is a 2-perf "scope" format (i.e. Techniscope). That's interesting that they "scoped" Super-16 footage. I can imagine how grainy that would be.


Technovision isn't the same as Techniscope. They are a rental house in Italy like Panavision, and like Panavision, they have a 2X anamorphic lens process called "Technovision" (similar to JDC anamorphics) but they also rent spherical 35mm packages, maybe even Super-16 for all I know.
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#6 Thomas Worth

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 11:24 PM

Technovision isn't the same as Techniscope. They are a rental house in Italy like Panavision, and like Panavision, they have a 2X anamorphic lens process called "Technovision" (similar to JDC anamorphics) but they also rent spherical 35mm packages, maybe even Super-16 for all I know.

So is the "Technovision" process not a 2-perf format? I have read things that make it seem as though the Technovision and Techniscope processed are similar. According to IMDB, Apocalypse Now was shot Technovision (apparently on "modified" Mitchells and Arris). Does this format not shoot 2.35:1 with spherical optics? To me, the fact that the cinematographic process was described as "Super-35" rules out anamorphic.

I know Techniscope does not expose the soundtrack area. Perhaps Technovision does, hence the reference to "Super-35" on IMDB for Irreversible.
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#7 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 12:21 AM

To repeat, Technovision is an Italian camera rental house. They got their start making anamorphic lenses, used most famously by Storaro on films like "Apocalypse Now" and "The Last Emporer". Like JDC anamorphics, they are basically Cooke spherical glass, some Zeiss, and Shiga anamorphic elements (I believe.)

They started out renting modified Mitchells (but standard 4-perf) but then switched to Arris.

Since they also rent spherical lenses, the label "Technovision" means about as much as "Panavision" does today -- it can be a 2.35 scope movie or a 1.85 flat movie. Many of Storaro's credits have "Technicolor-Technovision" listed next to his name (check out the credits to "Sheltering Sky" for example, a flat 1.85 movie.)

They have nothing to do with Techniscope. Storaro shot one movie in 2-perf, which was "Bird with the Crystal Plumage" (1970) although the imdb lists the process as "Chromoscope" not Techniscope.

"Technovision" had traditionally referred to their anamorphic process, which is compatable with CinemaScope. The lenses were developed by Polish-born Henryk Chroscicki, who first started out buying some original 1920's Chretien anamorphotic lenses and in the 1950's, improved them to develop "Totalscope" anamorphic, used on such films as "La Dolce Vita."

After the heydey of 2-perf in the 1960's and the demise of Totalscope, he formed Technovision in the early 1970's with some new anamorphic lenses, first used on Visconti's "The Innocent" (1976) and then "Apocalypse Now". But as I said, the company expanded into normal spherical optics and bought Arris, etc. You sometimes run into a spherical zoom lens on shoots made by Technovision.

So in terms of "Irreversible", the Technovision label can mean anything, probably Super-35 in this case but if the company rents Super-16 cameras, it could mean that as well. Storaro now shoots 3-perf 2:1 spherical "Univisium" but probably using modified Arris from Technovision.
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#8 Thomas Worth

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 12:33 AM

To repeat, Technovision is an Italian camera rental house.

Right, I get that, but I assumed the name went along with an actual format they created (sort of like Todd-AO and the Todd-AO format). Your post clears it up, however. So just because something is reported as being shot "Technoscope" doesn't mean it is one photographic process or another, just that the company, "Technoscope" supplied the cameras or lenses.
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#9 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 12:46 AM

Right, I get that, but I assumed the name went along with an actual format they created (sort of like Todd-AO and the Todd-AO format). Your post clears it up, however. So just because something is reported as being shot "Technoscope" doesn't mean it is one photographic process or another, just that the company, "Technoscope" supplied the cameras or lenses.


Technovision, not Techniscope.

Techniscope refers to the 2-perf process, unless you're talking about the early label for Super-35, which was "Super Techniscope", which "Greystoke" and "Silverado" listed as their shooting format.

And don't forget Technirama...

And "Todd-AO" gets confusing too because originally it was 5-perf 65mm spherical, but then there was the 35mm anamorphic Todd-AO 35 process used on such films as "Logan's Run" -- on the director's commentary on the DVD, he seems to blur the distinction since he also directed "Around the World in Eighty Days" using the 65mm process, but "Logan's Run" using the 35mm anamorphic process.
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#10 Thomas Worth

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 01:04 AM

Technovision, not Techniscope.

Yeah, I caught that. :huh: Sorry. I get it now. Thanks for taking the time to explain it!
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#11 Delorme Jean-Marie

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 04:52 AM

in january this year Technovision and panavision is the same rental house.
at Technovision they use to have storaro's lens i mean a serie the rent only to storaro and no one else!!
http://www.panavisio...ntpage&Itemid=1
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