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Testing Fuji Velvia


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#1 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 03:03 AM

Until Kodak announces the introduction of 7201 for Super-8, the Fuji Velvia that is being loaded, processed, and transferred by Spectra Film & Video will allow Super-8 users to have ALL ranges of quality and styles of Super-8.

I'm currently testing some 50 ASA Velvia that I purchased from Spectra. The Stock is somewhat tricky to expose but if exposed correctly can give a look that will be confused with 16mm. Of course the contrast ratio is nowhere near what negative delivers so care must be taken in what types of images one shoots. But if you're looking for grainless explosions of color, this is stock to use for exteriors.

In conjunction with the Kodak Vision 200T and 500T, a cinematographer now has the luxury of shoot both indoors and outdoors with both optimal quality and same day processing, wow!
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#2 A.Oliver

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 02:38 PM

Hi, keep us posted, very interested in your findings, especially with image steadiness. After many years of loyality towards all kodak products, i am afraid i will at least have to try some fuji 50. The 64t is such a dreadfull stock, i will not use anymore. So the best stock available has to be fuji 50. I doubt kodak will give us a descent 100asa stock in the super 8 cartridge.
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#3 Tenolian Bell

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 03:06 PM

Does Spectra have Velvia stocked away?

I recently e-mailed Fuji about Velvia and this is the response I received.

Thank you for contacting us.
We are sorry, Velvia for Motinon Picture stocks has been discontinued.

If you need high saturation feeling on your image then please try our F64D Daylight film.
This film can get high saturated image than other type of film.


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#4 santo

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 03:24 PM

They have a special stockpile that's got a year or two's expiry date to go, and then they're going to start using the new 100.

I think it looks like fun, but would mention some things. First, if you've actually seen this film in action you realize skin tones can look a little weird. It's hard to think of a feature at the moment that used it in places, except for an obscure one called EMILE with Ian McKellan. The filmmaker used Velvia to give the time shifting sequences an eerie surreal vibrant quality. Skin tones are often strange with this stock. Both are in evidence if you watch that film.

I don't understand how Alex could compare 50d (01) negative and a stock like this -- they are millions of miles different and not interchangeable.

As the best negatives for super 8 use like V2 50d and V2 100t are readily available from Pro8mm -- and if you have a problem with Pro8 you can have them developed at Spectra without charge provided you telecine there -- it seems that Velvia 50 is better described as a very interesting alternative for people who want to project and/or are looking to do some vibrant nature photography.

I've thought of using it for a horror short, trying to get a Hammer movie on acid look, but as it's 50 daylight speed, you'd have to shoot all outside which makes it really restrictive, unfortunately.
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#5 A.Oliver

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 03:37 PM

Hi, think you've put me off of velvia circuschrome before even ordering a roll. So i wont get accurate colours as i am currently getting with double super 8 k25?
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#6 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 03:50 PM

I'm just not buying into the Pro-8mm way of playing.

Even if maybe they no longer sell recan film stock, (and who would know for sure???), I just don't get a sense I could rely on their quality control. Sure Kodak gives them some kind of comendation every year, but it seems to me that there would be two price points for each of their film stock products, the recanned film stock would be cheaper, and the new film stock would be the "regular price".

In my book, for the Southern California area, only Kodak loaded or Spectra loaded film will get my seal of acceptance at this time. For me, Fuji Velvia is the only true low ASA Super-8 stock that is currently being loaded at a high enough quality control. Yes, there appears to be a limited amount of Velvia 50ASA left, perhaps a one or two year supply. I'm hoping that will tie the Super-8 people over that want grain structure similar to 16mm for their feature laden Super-8 cameras until Kodak or Spectra releases 7201 in Super-8.

As for how Velvia exposes faces, I will look further into that. But for now, I think time-lapse & time-exposure type stuff will look pretty terrific with this stock.
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#7 santo

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 04:42 PM

Hi, think you've put me off of velvia circuschrome before even ordering a roll. So i wont get accurate colours as i am currently getting with double super 8 k25?


I don't mean to turn you off from it, but be aware that it is best suited as a terrific vibrant landscape / nature film stock as it was intended by Fuji. Likely it would be excellent for colourful skateboard footage and motocross racing and stuff, too. So it would certainly have its uses in super 8 and I welcome its availability. Seeing as you can project it, it would be well worth a $35 try-out roll, in my opinion, if you're shooting things other than family members, friends, or short narratives with actors whom you want to appear, um, healthy.
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#8 S8 Booster

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 04:50 PM

Fuji RPV 50?

The highest chromas and most vibrant skin tones of all FUJICHROME films


http://www.pictureli...0AF3-960E_1.pdf

and then there is this thing called filtering,

shoot
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#9 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 04:55 PM

Fuji RPV 50?
http://www.pictureli...0AF3-960E_1.pdf

and then there is this thing called filtering,

shoot


That's the other thing I really like about the Velvia as an outdoor low ASA super-8 film stock, no 85 filter is needed, so the stock is actually one whole f-stop more sensitive than 85 filtered Kodachrome 40.

Of course, Velvia becomes almost pointless to try and shoot indoors, unless one has HMI lighting or outdoor sunlight streaming in.
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#10 santo

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 05:01 PM

An interesting post, Alex. As always. You raise some interesting issues that need to be examined.

I'm just not buying into the Pro-8mm way of playing.

Even if maybe they no longer sell recan film stock, (and who would know for sure???), I just don't get a sense I could rely on their quality control. Sure Kodak gives them some kind of comendation every year, but it seems to me that there would be two price points for each of their film stock products, the recanned film stock would be cheaper, and the new film stock would be the "regular price".


Now, where does this "recan" thing come from? You are claiming what exactly? That Pro8 has used recanned motion picture stock in the past and sold it to customers?* By making this "two point" recommendation, you believe clearly that it happend in the past and is happening still. Do you have any proof, foundation, or anything tangible to base this on, Alex? Or is this as made up as your "Kodachrome 40 processing was free" nonsense from a couple of days ago?

In my book, for the Southern California area, only Kodak loaded or Spectra loaded film will get my seal of acceptance at this time. For me, Fuji Velvia is the only true low ASA Super-8 stock that is currently being loaded at a high enough quality control.


I really like the looks of this Spectra place. Have since it opened. If they were progressive enough to offer direct-to-harddrive 10 bit transfers, I would give them a try out. However, on what do you base your seal of acceptance, Alex? How do you know it is being loaded with high enough quality control to get your "seal of acceptance"?


*For those not knowing what recans means, it means that Alex is accusing Pro8 of buying or having bought the left-overs from film productions, for example they might have 200 feet left in a 400 foot can of film they used and then they seal it up and sell it on ebay or whatever with what should be full disclosure. Often this is not a terrible thing if the film is used promptly but it introduces all kinds of possible problems with fogging, dust, and aged stock not honestly recanned into the original containers. This is a lot different from buying fresh film from Kodak as Pro8 does and usingthat to remanufacture their super 8 stocks.
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#11 santo

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 05:14 PM

and then there is this thing called filtering,


Again I want to thank you for your tributes to me in your signature and now avatar, Booster.

My condolences on one of the most embarrassing and hysterically funny threads you've posted in some time on filmshooting/conspiracytheory/slotcars.com regarding your DYI* 10-bit upres conversion from DV or whatever that was. Right up there with the best free energy and perpetual motion machine experiments I've seen on the web for sheer comedy. Made my day today, reading it over. Thanks for once more drawing my attention to your little world.

http://www.filmshoot...8526caa586a06be


* DYI -- Do Yourself In
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#12 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 07:25 PM

The Stock is somewhat tricky to expose but if exposed correctly can give a look that will be confused with 16mm.

I hear it's notched for 40ASA, so a -1/3 should do the trick. I'm excited to have 5 carts coming next week. Not worried about the skin tones, I prefer a more abstract or cool aesthetic for the stuff I do.
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#13 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 10:35 PM

An interesting post, Alex. As always. You raise some interesting issues that need to be examined.
Now, where does this "recan" thing come from? You are claiming what exactly? That Pro8 has used recanned motion picture stock in the past and sold it to customers?* By making this "two point" recommendation, you believe clearly that it happend in the past and is happening still. Do you have any proof, foundation, or anything tangible to base this on, Alex? Or is this as made up as your "Kodachrome 40 processing was free" nonsense from a couple of days ago?


Um, when Kodak is selling Kodachrome plus processing for 13-14 bucks total, their GIVING away the processing. But I doubt you'll acknowledge the very proof you asked for, here it is..

http://www.filmshoot...opic.php?t=5747


I really like the looks of this Spectra place. Have since it opened. If they were progressive enough to offer direct-to-harddrive 10 bit transfers, I would give them a try out. However, on what do you base your seal of acceptance, Alex? How do you know it is being loaded with high enough quality control to get your "seal of acceptance"?


I saw a short end of Velvia, new Velvia stock, transfered to video, and it looked real clean.

*For those not knowing what recans means, it means that Alex is accusing Pro8 of buying or having bought the left-overs from film productions, for example they might have 200 feet left in a 400 foot can of film they used and then they seal it up and sell it on ebay or whatever with what should be full disclosure. Often this is not a terrible thing if the film is used promptly but it introduces all kinds of possible problems with fogging, dust, and aged stock not honestly recanned into the original containers. This is a lot different from buying fresh film from Kodak as Pro8 does and usingthat to remanufacture their super 8 stocks.


Santos, don't claim I've said something that I haven't said. It's YOUR OPINION that you're regurgitating, not what I've stated.

I'm simply stating the obvious. Pro-8mm does not offer two point pricing for their super-8 film stocks. One price for new stock, another for recan's. If they were really selling primarily new stock, they would also sell some recanned film at a lower price because their profit margin would still be the same, but, they DON'T have two different prices for their film stocks. OTHERS have stated that Pro-8mm uses recans.

Do you think a Kodak rep would be willing to respond here that Pro-8mm has always bought NEW film to be cut down to Super-8 through the years?
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#14 S8 Booster

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 11:59 PM

if you hadnt been such a rookie santo youd noticed a post from someone who worked at pro8 which confirmed that they in fact sells recans.

and it is not alex.

that said, re-cans do not necessarily be all bad because simple snip tests can be done in advance - without guaranteeing for the whole strip though.

i dont bother providing the link but alex knows where to find it.

shoot8
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#15 santo

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 07:11 AM

if you hadnt been such a rookie santo youd noticed a post from someone who worked at pro8 which confirmed that they in fact sells recans.

i dont bother providing the link but alex knows where to find it.

shoot8


I'm well aware of all this nonsense "history" Boobster -- the ridiculous claims, the groundless speculation, the complete lack of evidence, the bitter shitcanned ex-employees striking back, the flakes, the failed filmmakers who can't look in the mirror and admit they suck and are entirely to blame for their terrible looking efforts, the secret Pro8 competitors posting false, impossibly bad comparisons under weird fake names... it's amazing.

Now who, exactly, posted this? Where is this post and what is this person's actual status with regard to the company? How about some facts and proof? Just once... it would be refreshing. :rolleyes:

Sh (hhhhooott) //OtttT!
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#16 santo

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 07:42 AM

And now for Alex. This is going to be really embarrassing, Alex. Why do you post things like this? You've got a strange masochistic sense of humour which I appreciate, but others may find cringe-inducing as you take your regular beatings.

Um, when Kodak is selling Kodachrome plus processing for 13-14 bucks total, their GIVING away the processing. But I doubt you'll acknowledge the very proof you asked for, here it is..

http://www.filmshoot...opic.php?t=5747


Um, there are two prices from this old post, Alex. One for the film and then one for film plus the processing. The processing costs money. When money is charged it is not free, and that thing for which money is charged is not given away. It is cheap, but it is not being given away, nor is it free. What part don't you get?

I saw a short end of Velvia, new Velvia stock, transfered to video, and it looked real clean.


What? So now you're claiming Spectra uses short ends (which is another term for recans) for their Velvia, Alex? Please explain this one!

Santos, don't claim I've said something that I haven't said. It's YOUR OPINION that you're regurgitating, not what I've stated.

I'm simply stating the obvious. Pro-8mm does not offer two point pricing for their super-8 film stocks. One price for new stock, another for recan's. If they were really selling primarily new stock, they would also sell some recanned film at a lower price because their profit margin would still be the same, but, they DON'T have two different prices for their film stocks. OTHERS have stated that Pro-8mm uses recans.


Yes it is obvious that Pro8 does not have two prices. Why would they, Alex? They have one product. Super 8 remanufactured from new Kodak (and now Fuji) stock. Why should they add and sell recanned stock? Because you say so? All you're doing here is what you usually do -- trying to confuse things in a haze of misinformation with some sort of "straw man argument", hoping that somehow 1 plus 1 will equal 3 and readers of your posts will make the mistake that there is some sort of substance to support your agendas. Of course there is none.

Do you think a Kodak rep would be willing to respond here that Pro-8mm has always bought NEW film to be cut down to Super-8 through the years?


What do you think, Alex? Why would they? That's a ridiculous rhetorical question.

I would guess, in the early years, doing a bunch of experimental work trying to get the negative stock to work in the cartridges in the first place, experimenting with Russian reloadables, reperfing, doing all that R & D work which has served to advance and put super 8 where it is now in its modern incarnation -- an effort worthy of Super 8 Sainthood for Phil Vigeant -- Pro8 probably bought a few recans for experimenting with because it was economically feasable for throwaway experimentation purposes. And if they did, so what?

Now let's talk about your Spectra accusation, Alex. You say that you saw footage from a recan they did of Velvia 50? That's what you wrote. I don't see a problem with them doing a little R & D with short end material just like Pro8 did, do you?
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#17 David Goldfarb

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 08:52 AM

Thanks for the report. I've had some of this film on pre-order, and I'm glad to hear that it's finally shipping.

Velvia 50 is a film I've never liked for for still photography except in very flat lighting conditions--oversaturated for my taste. But I think it might be ideal for nature subjects in S8 (I photograph birds, among other things), because a small format benefits from a little more vibrant color, and the fine grain should be a real plus.
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#18 steve hyde

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 11:20 AM

Thanks for the report. I've had some of this film on pre-order, and I'm glad to hear that it's finally shipping.

Velvia 50 is a film I've never liked for for still photography except in very flat lighting conditions--oversaturated for my taste. But I think it might be ideal for nature subjects in S8 (I photograph birds, among other things), because a small format benefits from a little more vibrant color, and the fine grain should be a real plus.



I agree - this is a wonderful stock for nature photography, not portraiture - good for slow motion shots of hummingbirds, wildflowers etc. Outdoor sprots photographers covering skiing etc. like it. It will also look a lot more like Kodachrome since it is also a vivid saturation stock. The 7280 (64T) is neutral saturation and is a stock designed for accurate color reproduction.

Velvia will be a nice Super 8 stock for projection.

Steve
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#19 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 11:55 AM

And now for Alex. This is going to be really embarrassing, Alex. Why do you post things like this? You've got a strange masochistic sense of humour which I appreciate, but others may find cringe-inducing as you take your regular beatings.
Um, there are two prices from this old post, Alex. One for the film and then one for film plus the processing. The processing costs money. When money is charged it is not free, and that thing for which money is charged is not given away. It is cheap, but it is not being given away, nor is it free. What part don't you get?
What? So now you're claiming Spectra uses short ends (which is another term for recans) for their Velvia, Alex? Please explain this one!
Yes it is obvious that Pro8 does not have two prices. Why would they, Alex? They have one product. Super 8 remanufactured from new Kodak (and now Fuji) stock. Why should they add and sell recanned stock? Because you say so? All you're doing here is what you usually do -- trying to confuse things in a haze of misinformation with some sort of "straw man argument", hoping that somehow 1 plus 1 will equal 3 and readers of your posts will make the mistake that there is some sort of substance to support your agendas. Of course there is none.
What do you think, Alex? Why would they? That's a ridiculous rhetorical question.

I would guess, in the early years, doing a bunch of experimental work trying to get the negative stock to work in the cartridges in the first place, experimenting with Russian reloadables, reperfing, doing all that R & D work which has served to advance and put super 8 where it is now in its modern incarnation -- an effort worthy of Super 8 Sainthood for Phil Vigeant -- Pro8 probably bought a few recans for experimenting with because it was economically feasable for throwaway experimentation purposes. And if they did, so what?

Now let's talk about your Spectra accusation, Alex. You say that you saw footage from a recan they did of Velvia 50? That's what you wrote. I don't see a problem with them doing a little R & D with short end material just like Pro8 did, do you?



Santo, Negative stock at 35 dollars per cartridge (including processing) versus Kodachrome at 15 dollars a cartridge including processing. Kodak lost more money the more kodachrome was sold because Kodak's pricing was based on old time guidelines when they were selling a lot more of it. Kodachrome never even made it to the professional division. Basically, Kodak was giving away the processing their kodachrome prices were so cheap. But that's in the past.

Once again you jump to erroneous conclusions about my statements. A Velvia short end is not a recan if it came from new stock, as is the case with Spectra. They know the Velvia film is so precious that when a Velvia film load supply that is being used to load into Super-8 cartridges gets to the end of the reel they put the remaining odd amount of velvia raw footage, perhaps 10-20 feet, into a super-8 cartridge and shoot it themselves rather than throw the velvia away.

As for Pro-8mm, you seem to be going into great detail about the situation. I'll stick to the obvious, let a Kodak sales rep vouch for Pro-8mm, that through the years Pro-8mm has bought new Kodak film stock,
EVERY YEAR, film purchased every few months, perhaps six month at the longest, from Kodak.

If the latest spin from Pro-8mm is that was then, this is now, then the should put a notice on each and every super-8 film cartridge (or on the box), THE FILM IN THIS FILM CARTRIDGE COMES FROM NEW KODAK FILM SUPPLIES less than x months old....

That would pretty much resolve the issue, would it not?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Back to the topic.

It's great to hear that Velvia is a great scenics style of film. I bet it's possible to get good skin colors as well, with some practice and experimentation.
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#20 santo

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 01:16 PM

In some countries having a different basis for their legal system than the English derived one we have in Canada and down there in the USA, one is presumed guilty until you prove you are innocent. It's an interesting concept. The French system is a good example of this. In the US legal system, one is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Everybody observes this except for Alex. He should move to France.
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