Jump to content


Photo

Movies shot on reversal


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Filip Plesha

Filip Plesha
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1267 posts
  • Other
  • Croatia

Posted 13 March 2006 - 04:27 PM

How many movies can you think of that were entierly shot on reversal stock?
Cross processing reversal to a negative does not count.

I can only think of Buffalo 66, I don't know any others, or can't remember..
VNF Ektachrome, was it?
  • 0

#2 Freya Black

Freya Black
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4161 posts
  • Other
  • Went over the edge... Central Europe

Posted 13 March 2006 - 05:37 PM

PI is the only other one I can think of for definite right now...

Lots of shorts spring to mind:

The Grandmother (David Lynch)
Inauguration of the pleasure dome.

etc etc
  • 0

#3 John Pytlak RIP

John Pytlak RIP

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 3499 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Rochester, NY 14650-1922

Posted 13 March 2006 - 05:45 PM

How many movies can you think of that were entierly shot on reversal stock?
Cross processing reversal to a negative does not count.

I can only think of Buffalo 66, I don't know any others, or can't remember..
VNF Ektachrome, was it?


You really need to go back to the old "Monopack" days when color reversal was used for some lower budget productions that had Technicolor dye transfer prints made. "Dive Bomber" and "Thunderhead, Son of Flicka" come to mind, as well as some of the Disney feature documentaries like "The Living Desert".

During the 1960's, color reversal films were often preferred for 16mm production, prior to the introduction of the sharper, finer-grained color negative films and the ECN-2 process. EASTMAN Commercial Film (ECO) 7255 and 7252 were mainstays for shooting industrial and educational films in that era.
  • 0

#4 Filip Plesha

Filip Plesha
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1267 posts
  • Other
  • Croatia

Posted 13 March 2006 - 07:01 PM

Sorry, I wasn't being specific enough...


I ment films that were distributed in cinemas (like Buffalo), be it 16 blowup or 35mm
In other words, mainstream cinema distribution movies.
  • 0

#5 Freya Black

Freya Black
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4161 posts
  • Other
  • Went over the edge... Central Europe

Posted 13 March 2006 - 07:47 PM

Sorry, I wasn't being specific enough...
I ment films that were distributed in cinemas (like Buffalo), be it 16 blowup or 35mm
In other words, mainstream cinema distribution movies.


I did some reasearch because I was sure there was something else that #I had seen other than Pi and Buffallo 66 but didn't come across anything that jogged my mind. However I did turn up the following films:

Show Me Love (DIRECTED BY: Lukas Moodysson)
Martin (DIRECTED BY: George Romero)

Of course these films aren't neccesarily mainstream cinema distribution movies either but then nor is Buffalo 66. Pi is really the nearest thing I can think of with a somewhat mainstream release.

I didn't come across much else although a lot of films feature bits shot on reversal. "Summer of Sam" directed by spike Lee, Domino by Tony Scot and isn't there some K40 in kill Bill somewhere or something? Maybe I dreamt that. I wonder if "Night of the living dead" is reversal?

I came across one website that claimed "confessions of a dangerous mind" was shot on reversal. At first I thought that couldn't be true but having thought about it some more, maybe it was I'm not sure. It was impressive if it was!

Natural Born killers has quite a bit of S8 reversal in it.

One problem with reversal stocks in the cinema, is that there isn't much in the way of reversal stocks available in 35mm. In fact AFAIK, the only one left is Plus-X??? So most of these flms tend to be blow-ups from 16mm or 8mm.

love

Freya
  • 0

#6 Filip Plesha

Filip Plesha
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1267 posts
  • Other
  • Croatia

Posted 13 March 2006 - 08:32 PM

5285 is still available

But still, having only one reversal stock, and one with a rather stylised palette of colors and higher contrast is not much of a choice. There is not one normal reversal film for MP. But I guess negative films are for that.
  • 0

#7 Eric Steelberg ASC

Eric Steelberg ASC
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 538 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, CA

Posted 14 March 2006 - 11:32 AM

THREE KINGS. AND much of it was cross processed.

CONFESSIONS OF A DANGEROUS MIND wasn't, but it has a very affected DI which I believe was done in Toronto.

He also cross processed reversal for the demon sequences in FALLEN.
  • 0

#8 John Pytlak RIP

John Pytlak RIP

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 3499 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Rochester, NY 14650-1922

Posted 14 March 2006 - 12:17 PM

Except for getting a unique "look", the color reversal films are just not as well suited for duplicating (i.e. making hundreds or thousands of release prints) as the color negative film system. You also need to maintain the correct orientation of 35mm prints (emulsion away from the projector lens), so duplicating a reversal original using a contact printed internegative will not have the correct orientation.

Certainly, many (like Spike Lee) have used color reversal films like 5285 for the unique "look", whether processed in E-6 or cross-processed:

http://www.kodak.com...1.4.4.6.4&lc=en

http://fordelabs.com...hnique.php?ID=5

http://www.popmatter...nterviews.shtml

Malik Sayeed who, at 26 years of age, became the Director of Photography for Lee's film Clockers. It was Sayeed's first time handling a major motion picture and he went all out in order to give the film a unique look and feel. He talked Lee into using Kodak 5239 film stock, a high-speed color reversal film intended for photography under low-level daylight illumination, which was previously used primarily by the Air Force and by NASA for their onboard cameras on the space shuttle. Since 5239 film stock had never been mass-produced for the general public, Kodak had to make up a special run with edge numbers on it just for the movie. Even the development of the film was tricky, requiring negative processing before transferring it to 35 mm, and special care was given to the set lighting because of the danger of over-exposing the film. Is something as seemingly trivial as what sort of film stock is used in a film all that important? Lee thinks so.


  • 0

#9 Leo Anthony Vale

Leo Anthony Vale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2010 posts
  • Other
  • Pittsburgh PA

Posted 14 March 2006 - 04:29 PM

[quote name='Freya' date='Mar 13 2006, 07:47 PM' post='95489']
I did some reasearch because I was sure there was something else that #I had seen other than Pi and Buffallo 66 but didn't come across anything that jogged my mind. However I did turn up the following films:

Show Me Love (DIRECTED BY: Lukas Moodysson)
Martin (DIRECTED BY: George Romero)

Of course these films aren't neccesarily mainstream cinema distribution movies either but then nor is Buffalo 66. Pi is really the nearest thing I can think of with a somewhat mainstream release.

---Romero movies are definitely mainstream, even if they're on the horror fringe of it.

I didn't come across much else although a lot of films feature bits shot on reversal. "Summer of Sam" directed by spike Lee, Domino by Tony Scot and isn't there some K40 in kill Bill somewhere or something? Maybe I dreamt that. I wonder if "Night of the living dead" is reversal?

---"Night of the Living Dead" is 35mm Tri-X negative. I'had to tear apart the original splices and recement them.
The Tri-X must have been forced quite a bit and the lighting is too contrasty. This causes many people to assume it was shot in 16mm.

---I would not count cross processed reversal footge as really being 'reversal' for this thread., since it's comes out as a negative.

'Chang is Missing', was blown up from B/W reversal and looks qite good. A lot better than 'Clerks' 16mm B/W negative.

'Pink Flamingoes' was ECO 7255. The blowup is washed out and grainy. However the 25th aniversery edition has new blow ups of deleted scenes at the end, the differnce in quality between these and the original blow up is stunning. Practically grainless with good tones.

'Female Trouble' was ECO 7252 and that was a great blow up Very sharp and fine grained, easily mistaken for a 35mm original.

One problem with reversal stocks in the cinema, is that there isn't much in the way of reversal stocks available in 35mm. In fact AFAIK, the only one left is Plus-X???
---You're confusing it with Ektachrome.

---LV
  • 0

#10 Michael Most

Michael Most
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 765 posts
  • Other

Posted 14 March 2006 - 04:35 PM

How many movies can you think of that were entierly shot on reversal stock?
Cross processing reversal to a negative does not count.

I can only think of Buffalo 66, I don't know any others, or can't remember..


The Harder They Come was on ECO.

I believe large portions of Three Kings was on reversal as well.
  • 0

#11 John Pytlak RIP

John Pytlak RIP

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 3499 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Rochester, NY 14650-1922

Posted 14 March 2006 - 04:36 PM

The slow low contrast color reversal ECO films 7255 and 7252 would have been the films of choice for 16mm production during the 1960's and early 1970's, until the introduction of 7247 and the ECN-2 process.
  • 0

#12 Freya Black

Freya Black
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4161 posts
  • Other
  • Went over the edge... Central Europe

Posted 14 March 2006 - 04:56 PM

>---"Night of the Living Dead" is 35mm Tri-X negative. I'had to tear apart the original splices and recement >them. The Tri-X must have been forced quite a bit and the lighting is too contrasty. This causes many people >to assume it was shot in 16mm.

How did you come to be playing with the original film?
I don't suppose you know what "The crazies was shot on?"

---Romero movies are definitely mainstream, even if they're on the horror fringe of it.

Yes! The new film had a wide release at least. I was always led to believe that Night of the living dead had less mainstream distribution through screening at drive-ins and stuff, but I wasn't around so I don't know! :)
Was it like that ot not, or were drive-ins considered to be fairly mainstream distribution at the time?

available in 35mm. In fact AFAIK, the only one left is Plus-X???
---You're confusing it with Ektachrome.

Actually I was confusing it with the plus-X neg, which is even more confused! :)
I was suprised to find the 100D was available in 35mm too!

love

Freya
  • 0

#13 Leo Anthony Vale

Leo Anthony Vale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2010 posts
  • Other
  • Pittsburgh PA

Posted 15 March 2006 - 03:13 PM

>---"Night of the Living Dead" is 35mm Tri-X negative. I'had to tear apart the original splices and recement >them. The Tri-X must have been forced quite a bit and the lighting is too contrasty. This causes many people >to assume it was shot in 16mm.

How did you come to be playing with the original film?
I don't suppose you know what "The crazies was shot on?"

---Romero movies are definitely mainstream, even if they're on the horror fringe of it.

Yes! The new film had a wide release at least. I was always led to believe that Night of the living dead had less mainstream distribution through screening at drive-ins and stuff, but I wasn't around so I don't know! :)
Was it like that ot not, or were drive-ins considered to be fairly mainstream distribution at the time?


---The lab I was working at was making a new fine grain for use in the 30th Anniversary Edition which John Russo was making. The fine grains of the new footage was cut into the new fine grain. I was not involved with that stage.

The customer rep told me that Romero did the neg cutting himself while liquored up. It is a boring job.
The misaligned splices were jumping in the printer and causing to tear.

IMDB.com says 'The Crazies' was a blow-up. Other early color Romero were blow ups, so I'll believe IMDB on this one. That would have been ECO 7252. Most of Martin was the same, obviously not the B/W.
There's one or two night exteriors which are most likely Ektachrome EF. The sharpness difference is really noticable.

In the 60s drive ins were as mainstream as neighborhood theaters. Living Dead was distributed by Walter Reade/Continental. They mustly distributed foreign films, Billy Liar, Darling, the soviet War and Peace.
Art house rather than major studio, but not a sleezy exploitation company.

---LV
  • 0

#14 Freya Black

Freya Black
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4161 posts
  • Other
  • Went over the edge... Central Europe

Posted 15 March 2006 - 04:31 PM

---The lab I was working at was making a new fine grain for use in the 30th Anniversary Edition which John Russo was making. The fine grains of the new footage was cut into the new fine grain. I was not involved with that stage.

The customer rep told me that Romero did the neg cutting himself while liquored up. It is a boring job.
The misaligned splices were jumping in the printer and causing to tear.


In the 60s drive ins were as mainstream as neighborhood theaters. Living Dead was distributed by Walter Reade/Continental. They mustly distributed foreign films, Billy Liar, Darling, the soviet War and Peace.
Art house rather than major studio, but not a sleezy exploitation company.


I don't tend to think of arthouse as being mainstream but I guess that is a bone of contention, and obviously a zombie movie or monster movies generally are a fairly mainstream genre. Drive-ins and neighborhood theatres are both preety alien ideas now, although the arthouse cinema in the city I live is an old neighborhood theatre. It is still gas lit and has the little box outside to sell tickets. I had a short shown there recently which was a wonderful experience. It was like having my work shown in a real, real cinema, with all the iconic paraphenalia that is now gone from cinema. :) I was very happy.

That's quite something to be holding the original negative of such an iconic film too! I find editing hard enough, so I don't think I could face neg cutting, even with drugs! ;)

Thanks for your story, I enjoyed it!

love

Freya
  • 0

#15 K Borowski

K Borowski
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3905 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • I.A.T.S.E. Local # 600 Eastern Region

Posted 16 March 2006 - 04:06 PM

Alcohol and neg. cutting don't mix! :blink:
  • 0

#16 Matt Pacini

Matt Pacini
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1246 posts

Posted 16 March 2006 - 04:14 PM

I believe the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre was shot on reversal.

MP
  • 0


Tai Audio

Ritter Battery

The Slider

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Paralinx LLC

CineLab

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Metropolis Post

Abel Cine

Willys Widgets

CineTape

Aerial Filmworks

Rig Wheels Passport

Wooden Camera

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Visual Products

Technodolly

Glidecam

rebotnix Technologies

FJS International, LLC

Opal

rebotnix Technologies

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Wooden Camera

Opal

CineLab

Glidecam

Tai Audio

Willys Widgets

Paralinx LLC

The Slider

Technodolly

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Abel Cine

Visual Products

CineTape

Metropolis Post

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Ritter Battery

FJS International, LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

Aerial Filmworks