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in over my head


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#1 Craig Agee

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 06:42 PM

im trying to figure out what im gonna do with this s16 roll i exposed.to be honest i have NO idea anymore as im overwelmed with options.im really not interested in telecine and non linear editing,ive never worked that way in photography.i could always get drum scans for my negs and edit in photoshop but ive always liked to keep things very basic.i shoot fuji provia 100f and kodak ev100vs and the only editing i do is cropping.i would like to keep things basic with my s16 so my question is: what do i need to edit s16...if i get a splicer,synchronizer,sound reader,moviescope ect...can i cut up s16 on it? or is it designed for regular 16 if so what can you cut up s16 on?
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 06:51 PM

The problem is just that you won't be able to see the whole S16 frame on a reg 16mm viewer.

The bigger question is what you plan on doing with a spliced S16 workprint. Cut the neg, make a S16 timed IP, blow that up to 35mm? S16 is not a projection format.
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#3 Craig Agee

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 07:03 PM

The problem is just that you won't be able to see the whole S16 frame on a reg 16mm viewer.

The bigger question is what you plan on doing with a spliced S16 workprint. Cut the neg, make a S16 timed IP, blow that up to 35mm? S16 is not a projection format.


yes...that is why my title is 'in over my head' hehe...i havent gotten to that part yet.i figure i will first figure out how to edit it then after that figure out what to do with it (im way in over my head).what is timed IP?blowing up to 35mm seems to be the purpose of shooting s16 right?what should i do? cut my s16 print and not worry about not being able to see the extra image in the frame? if i were shooting regular 16 i wouldnt be so confused.its just i bought this camera that has an s16 mod already so i figured id take advantage of that.any advice is GREATLY appriciated thanks
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#4 Rik Andino

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 09:07 PM

...any advice is GREATLY appriciated thanks


You're most likely going to have to telecine...
And cut something that you can have on video-tape
That's my advice.


Like David Mullen says--
You have to know what you're going to do with your footage
It usually helps to know these things even before production even begins...
but like you said you're in over your head.

if you're really opposed to nonlinear editing (cutting on a computer)
You can make a work print and splice it and view it cropped on a R16 projector....
But like most projects that don't have a end goal, it's best you finish in video
You can show it to your friends and you can view over and over again...
Until you figure what do with your footage.

So again my advice is...Telecine your footage


Good Luck
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#5 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 11:05 PM

If you like better the traditional route, try to find a S16 editing table. They do exist.

What stock did you shoot ? Negative or reversal ?
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#6 Craig Agee

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 11:25 PM

If you like better the traditional route, try to find a S16 editing table. They do exist.

What stock did you shoot ? Negative or reversal ?


i shot a 100ft roll of plus-x reversal.if i were to build an editing table with synchronizer,splicer,sound reader ect...all i would need for s16 would be a moviescope that would cover the frame right? or wrong?im interested in analog because im a still photographer but im also a recording engineer and interested in using a nagra i have access to and editing completely analog.as a hobby i know it sounds strange and an expensive hobby but why not im interested in it.
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#7 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 12:09 AM

i shot a 100ft roll of plus-x reversal.if i were to build an editing table with synchronizer,splicer,sound reader ect...all i would need for s16 would be a moviescope that would cover the frame right? or wrong?im interested in analog because im a still photographer but im also a recording engineer and interested in using a nagra i have access to and editing completely analog.as a hobby i know it sounds strange and an expensive hobby but why not im interested in it.


You should have shot regular 16mm if you wanted to keep it simple. Then you could conform the original and make a 16mm contact print with sound on it (although now that reversal print stock is obsolete, I'm not sure what your options would be other than to use Plus-X reversal as a print stock and get double the contrast in the image.) You probably should have shot 16mm b&w negative if you wanted a print.

But then... you said you were cutting workprint, so what did the lab use to copy the b&w reversal original to?

Super-16 is either for blowing up to 35mm or for transferring to widescreen video.

Deciding how to post something and what the end format will be is ALWAYS the first thing you have to decide before shooting anything.
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#8 Craig Agee

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 12:17 AM

You should have shot regular 16mm if you wanted to keep it simple. Then you could conform the original and make a 16mm contact print with sound on it (although now that reversal print stock is obsolete, I'm not sure what your options would be other than to use Plus-X reversal as a print stock and get double the contrast in the image.) You probably should have shot 16mm b&w negative if you wanted a print.

But then... you said you were cutting workprint, so what did the lab use to copy the b&w reversal original to?

Super-16 is either for blowing up to 35mm or for transferring to widescreen video.

Deciding how to post something and what the end format will be is ALWAYS the first thing you have to decide before shooting anything.


thanks david...maybe i will consider transferring to video to get the most out of my s16 camera.seems a waste to shoot r16 when i have the mod.maybe my dream of simplicity is just a fantasy.im very concerned with the direction its all going mostly out of fear i dont understand the technology.i argue with fellow photographers constantly on the film vs digital debate.i respect it as a medium but will be sad to see it replace film.i actually converted about 5 years ago to a dslr to try it and found myself learning about color spaces and ICC profiles for printers and extensive digital editing and still never got the look i am use to from shooting reversal film.maybe i have to conform.thanks for the responses though.
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#9 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 04:03 AM

what did the lab use to copy the b&w reversal original to?


Yes, you should check that... I would think that if you didn't ask them to do a copy, you certainly are having the original in your hands by now... meaning that you might dirt, scratch, cut it when you edit if you do it traditional...

You see, reversal stock was mainly used for amateurs who did not edit their shots, or don't mind the scratches etc. when they do or for news gathering, meaning the cuts were reduced to the minimum possible, done carefully etc.

I guess the best for you by now is to transfer to video. You need the lab to do so. Don't project or touch your original before it's done, I would recommend.
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