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DSR 450WSP. How do I get a higher saturation look?


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#1 Frankieplus

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 09:07 PM

I just bought a DSR450WSP and I don't understand the menu system.

I'm used to the DSR 500 and DSR570. With these cameras I used to select 'File' and then 'HiSat' to get that higher saturation look.

How can I do this with the 450? Also, are there any sites that explain this new menu system? I have no idea how do do anything other than use the 'Operation' menu.

What's a Matrix?

But yeah, any help on the HiSat would be appreciated.


-Frankie
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#2 Simon Wyndham

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 04:56 AM

The Matrix is everywhere.

But seriously this is the way you can get more saturation. You can do a few things.

One is to increase the Step Gamma to, say, 0.50 instead of 0.45 as it is as standard. This reduces the dynamic range though slightly. Changing to Gamma table STD 1 as well as this will give a more saturated look. Turning on the User Matrix and increasing ONLY the R-G and B-G settings from between 0 and +20 will give you some colour boost too.
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#3 Ale Reynoso

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 09:44 PM

Hi:
I´m not used to the 450, but in the 500 and 570, if you entered the advanced menú (powering up while holding the "UP" button) it allowed you to modify every parameter of the file you had selected (hi sat, filmlike, etc). Once you modified it you could save it to a user file. The parameters were like master black. gamma, detail, etc, and saturation. It allowed you to adjust from B&W to oversaturated colors (-99 to 99).
I don´t know in the 450, but you should find something similar.
Don´t you have the manual?
Try entering the advanced menu (in the 390 it wasn´t an "up" and "down" buttons but a wheel. you had to push the wheel while powering up)

I hope I could help
Good luck
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#4 Jac Chesson

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 06:16 PM

Hello Everyone!

My first reply here on this forum. I just purchased the DSR-450WS (NTSC version). I've been in business for myself for about 1 year. I came from a production company background and I used the f900 Cinealta almost every day.

The DSR-450WS is the first reasonably priced camera that I've seen with all the controlability of the f900.
This camera is not the 390, 500, or 570. It's completely different. Simon is right. Adjusting the user matrix is the best way to introduce more saturation.

Frankie, make sure you spend a lot of time with this camera and a good monitor to come up with a pleasing look that you like. If you're doing a lot of 24p work like me, make sure you reduce the detail and crispening for a more natural, film-like look. The factory defaults are over detailed IMHO.

For the money, it is a truly amazing camera. A real client pleaser!
It would be great if someday the Sony DSR-450WS would have its own forum here, but I seem to be the only person in the U.S. that has one! :)
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#5 Peter J DeCrescenzo

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 06:39 PM

... It would be great if someday the Sony DSR-450WS would have its own forum here, but I seem to be the only person in the U.S. that has one! :)


Hi Jac: There are a "few" of us. :)

My DSR-450WSL is #18.
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#6 vandeha

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 06:46 PM

I agree with Jac. I have owned the DSR-450wls for two months now, I realize there are much to learn about this camera. I think there are many owners out there would gather at this site if there is a forum assigned to the DSR-450.
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#7 Jac Chesson

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 07:33 PM

Thanks, Van

We need to get Peter to use his "Sustaining Member" status to influence the powers that be in that direction.
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#8 Simon Wyndham

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 03:59 AM

A seperate forum would be nice. I've always found it odd that the SDX900 always seems to get its own forums, but not the Sony cameras.

One note about crispening on the 450. Don't mistake redcing it for negative numbers in the settings menu. If you 'reduce' the crispening function into negative numbers you are actually enhancing the effect.

If you go to http://tinyurl.com/qmd3s there are some really good tips on the various settings available in these cameras.
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#9 gwynne

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 05:07 AM

A seperate forum would be nice. I've always found it odd that the SDX900 always seems to get its own forums, but not the Sony cameras.

One note about crispening on the 450. Don't mistake redcing it for negative numbers in the settings menu. If you 'reduce' the crispening function into negative numbers you are actually enhancing the effect.

If you go to http://tinyurl.com/qmd3s there are some really good tips on the various settings available in these cameras.


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#10 gwynne

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 05:20 AM

Oops!

Sorry,first time on here and pressed wrong button ..

I have been shooting with a DSR 450P since last August. I swopped my Canon J15x8 lens onto it from my old camera and have found the combination terrific value for money in terms of the stunning picture quality it can deliver. Now I feel brave enough to explore more of the menu settings as to the picture 'set-up' . However the link Simon kindly supplied in his last post seems not to be working.

Thanks,
Gwynne
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#11 Simon Wyndham

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 12:08 PM

Sometimes these links on the Sony Europe site are weird. It is difficult to link directly.

Try going to http://www.sonybiz.net/dvcam

Look at the Reference Information at the bottom of the page and click on the link to Shooting Tips.
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#12 Jac Chesson

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 03:34 PM

Thanks for the Sony website tips, Simon. They were most helpful. You're absolutely right about crispening.
Frankie, I'm sure you've seen on these tips that there are lots of ways to increase chroma.
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#13 Peter J DeCrescenzo

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 09:15 PM

Thanks for the tip, Simon!

The Sony document about how to update the DSR-450WSL's firmware to the current version also explains how to access the cam's Sevice menu.

Caution: Using a cam's Service menu can produce unexpected or undesirable results! You've been warned! Danger, danger, Will Robinson! ;-)

==============

DSR-450WSL Service menu:

1. Turn power ON.

2. Access the SERVICE menu as follows:

a. Set the WHITE BAL switch to PRST.

b. While pressing the ZEBRA switch, set the WHT/BLK switch to WHT, and turn the MENU switch to ON.

For example, to view the DSR-450WSL ROM software version number:

1. Access the Service menu by following the steps above.
2. Open the ROM VERSION page.
3. Confirm the AT software version.

To exit the Service menu, turn the MENU switch to OFF, and then power off the camera.
==============
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#14 Simon Wyndham

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Posted 15 April 2006 - 05:06 AM

You 450 owners are lucky. To get the service menu on the 510 requires opening up the camera and flipping a tiny little dipswtich.
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#15 Jeff Regan

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 12:20 AM

I too would like to see a DSR-450WS forum and bought a 450 for my rental inventory a couple of months ago.
(#68) I would like to thank Peter and Simon for their very useful information.

I've been in video for over 25 years and am amazed at what the 450 does for the price. BTW, I just found out that Sony is offering a $3000 rebate on the 450! Too late for me. I guess they had to match Pansonic's
price reduction on the SDX-900, or is it the other way around?

I've owned a DSR-500WS since 2001 and find the camera to be good, but never really took it very seriously
from a user interface standpoint, prefering my BVW-D600's and BVP-550WS user interfaces and better controllability.

I'm sure the 450 will be my last SD camera investment, but most of my clients are corporate and there aren't
a whole lot of HD distribution options currently, so HD isn't a burning issue with most of my clients.

Anyway, thank you all for DSR-450 info, and I look forward to meeting Peter one of these days, since we're
working in the same market.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
www.ssv.com

Edited by Jeff Regan, 17 April 2006 - 12:22 AM.

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#16 Jeff Regan

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 05:38 PM

One is to increase the Step Gamma to, say, 0.50 instead of 0.45 as it is as standard. This reduces the dynamic range though slightly. Changing to Gamma table STD 1 as well as this will give a more saturated look. Turning on the User Matrix and increasing ONLY the R-G and B-G settings from between 0 and +20 will give you some colour boost too.


The way I've traditionally added saturation and warmth, especially to flesh tones, is to add value to red and
blue gains or red and blue gamma(emphasis on red for warmth). With today's DSP cameras, they have global saturation control and/or matrix tables, the latter allowing much more precise control of individual colors vs. an overall saturation control. Black gamma or black stretch will tend to make the image less saturated but offer
more shadow detail.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
www.ssv.com

Edited by Jeff Regan, 17 April 2006 - 05:39 PM.

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