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Film Scanners comparison


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#1 PStalla

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 09:52 AM

Hi,

I am a film student from Germany and I am writing an essay on the question, if 35mm will be completely replaced by digital capture, post, distribution and exihbition. Ok - lets get to the point. I want to define standard parameters on which one can evaluate the ability of film scanners to represent 35mm image quality.

For one thing there is resolution (oversampling and output).
Secondly one can define the bit depth of the imagine.
On the other hand I think one has to find out if the scanner can really capture the max density to min density of a 35mm frame which is a maximal difference of 1,6 (Kodaks says to be save one should measure it 2).

Are there any other parameter coming to your mind that you think should be discused?! I am open for any new influences. Last but not least -> The scanners I am talking about are: Arriscan, Cintel diTTO ,Cintel Data Mill ,FilmLight Northlight ,Imagica Imager XE ,Thomson Spirit 4k ,Kinoton Cinescan 4k ,Oxberry Cinescan 6400

Thanks for your help in advance - all the best from Germany,

Philippe
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#2 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 03:31 PM

Hi,

I am a film student from Germany and I am writing an essay on the question, if 35mm will be completely replaced by digital capture, post, distribution and exihbition. Ok - lets get to the point. I want to define standard parameters on which one can evaluate the ability of film scanners to represent 35mm image quality.

For one thing there is resolution (oversampling and output).
Secondly one can define the bit depth of the imagine.
On the other hand I think one has to find out if the scanner can really capture the max density to min density of a 35mm frame which is a maximal difference of 1,6 (Kodaks says to be save one should measure it 2).

Are there any other parameter coming to your mind that you think should be discused?! I am open for any new influences. Last but not least -> The scanners I am talking about are: Arriscan, Cintel diTTO ,Cintel Data Mill ,FilmLight Northlight ,Imagica Imager XE ,Thomson Spirit 4k ,Kinoton Cinescan 4k ,Oxberry Cinescan 6400

Thanks for your help in advance - all the best from Germany,

Philippe


Kodak recently published several technical papers that address scanning parameters:

http://www.electroni...&cfid=&cftoken=

May 2003 (Vol. 112, No. 5) SMPTE Journal
An Introduction to Aliasing and Sharpening in Digital Motion Picture Systems
By Roger R. A. Morton, Michelle A. Maurer, and Christopher L. DuMont



Abstract
Many interacting factors affect image quality. This paper discusses the measurement of some crucial factors and reviews their interactions. Specifically, how pixel count can interact with the image-quality factors of limiting resolution, aliasing ratio, and shape of frequency response. A new tool designed for onscreen image-quality measurements for both film and electronic projectors is described, and actual examples of aliasing artifacts are shown in still images from digital motion picture systems. It is then illustrated how aliasing artifacts can arise, although Nyquist sampling requirements are satisfied. Finally, some of the interactions between limiting resolution and frequency response shape for still and moving images are explained.


http://www.electroni...&cfid=&cftoken=

July/August 2003 (Vol. 112, No. 7) SMPTE Journal
Relationships between Pixel Count, Aliasing, and Limiting Resolution in Digital Motion Picture Systems
By Roger R. A. Morton, Christopher L. DuMont, and Michelle A. Maurer



Abstract
This paper analyzes how pixel count affects one type of aliasing artifact and image rendition near limiting resolution. A previous paper1 showed that aliasing artifacts take many forms. This paper focuses on the aliasing artifact identified in the ISO 12233 standard and identified as Type A aliasing in the prior paper. A relationship termed ?Type A aliasing equation? is presented, which predicts aliasing as measured by the ISO 12233 standard. It is then demonstrated that this equation predicts the best unreconstructed aliasing performance for digital motion picture systems and subsystems, thereby defining one characteristic of an ideal system. The predicted result is then compared by the Type A aliasing equation and the measured aliasing performance of 20 different digital motion picture systems and subsystems. It is also shown that the Type A aliasing equation is superior to the classical Nyquist theory as a predictor of aliasing performance of digital motion picture systems. Finally, the equation is used to compute the minimum number of pixels required for a given aliasing level and limiting resolution, and data is presented to determine the pixel count required to render a given limiting resolution.


Bottom line: scan at the highest resolution possible to minimize digital artifact and retain the highest resolution. For 35mm film, 4K is certainly better quality than 2K, and >4K is likely to look even better.
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#3 Filip Plesha

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 05:03 PM

On the other hand I think one has to find out if the scanner can really capture the max density to min density of a 35mm frame which is a maximal difference of 1,6 (Kodaks says to be save one should measure it 2).


that's the least of your problems.

As you probably know, Kodak makes tri-linear sensors for pro still image scanners that can capture beyond max density of 4 for reversal film.
So I doubt such expensive sensors like the ones in cinema scanners have problems with such small densities (below 2)

Unless of course these sensors in cinema scanners are made to intentionally have low dynamic range for whatever reason.
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#4 Filip Plesha

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 05:18 PM

I am a film student from Germany and I am writing an essay on the question, if 35mm will be completely replaced by digital capture, post, distribution and exihbition. Ok - lets get to the point. I want to define standard parameters on which one can evaluate the ability of film scanners to represent 35mm image quality.


besides the things you mentioned, there is noise, aliasing issues, motor/step precision, sharpness of the lens, quality of software/firmware
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Metropolis Post

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Rig Wheels Passport

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Glidecam

Aerial Filmworks

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