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Exosure/lighting practice for 16mm on a 35mm still camera


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#1 BradH

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 09:26 PM

Since I bought a K-3 a few months ago, and recently and light meter, I've been practicing my film exposure/lighting skills (or lack of skills) on my 35mm still camera before I go wasting my cash on 16mm film rolls. If I practice using the same ASA film as I will be using for my K-3 and set my 35mm camera and meter to 60 fps should I expect to get similar exposure results as with my K-3 and 16mm film? After practicing with as many rolls of 35mm film as I've been using I'm hoping to get a good feel for aperature settings under various lighting scenarios and not just composition experience. Also, I'm attempting more lighting for effect and not just exposure.

Brad H
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#2 Landis Tanaka

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 10:24 PM

I too, would like to know this. Does 35mm have the same sensitivity to light as 16mm? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMM
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#3 Mike Rizos

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 10:44 PM

I too, would like to know this. Does 35mm have the same sensitivity to light as 16mm? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMM

Yes

Since I bought a K-3 a few months ago, and recently and light meter, I've been practicing my film exposure/lighting skills (or lack of skills) on my 35mm still camera before I go wasting my cash on 16mm film rolls. If I practice using the same ASA film as I will be using for my K-3 and set my 35mm camera and meter to 60 fps should I expect to get similar exposure results as with my K-3 and 16mm film? After practicing with as many rolls of 35mm film as I've been using I'm hoping to get a good feel for aperature settings under various lighting scenarios and not just composition experience. Also, I'm attempting more lighting for effect and not just exposure.

Brad H

Hi,
There is no 60fps on a still camera. I am not sure what you're asking. Shutter at 60 means 1/60 sec. Movie cameras at 24fps with 180 degree mirror shutter expose for 1/48 sec. 60fps would be 1/120 sec.
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#4 BradH

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 11:24 PM

Yes
Hi,
There is no 60fps on a still camera. I am not sure what you're asking. Shutter at 60 means 1/60 sec. Movie cameras at 24fps with 180 degree mirror shutter expose for 1/48 sec. 60fps would be 1/120 sec.


I meant 1/60 sec. on the still camera, sorry for the miss-type. All the K-3 info I've seen shows its 24 fps to be equivelent to 1/60 sec for light meters. That's what I'm setting my light meter and camera meter to while experimenting.

But, my main question was about the exposure and color. I'm assuming there's no exposure difference caused by the shutter types being different between a still and movie camera, the film emulsions of 16mm and 35mm, and maybe film ASA rating differences between movie and still picture film. I'm just trying to make sure there's no obvious difference that is generaly understood that I need to account for. I don't want my first 100' roll to come out way over or underexposed due to something stupid that I'm not accounting for. I'm also experimenting with light color temps and filters and wonder if those will generally match as well. Of course I realize there are slight color differences with all film.

Brad H
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#5 Joe Gioielli

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 12:08 PM

Hi guys and welcome.

I'm sorry to sound like a broken record, but I feel like there is a case of "light meter" phobia running around. Light metering is complicated. You really have to learn how meters work, how different lighting conditions effect metering, and what kind of exposure you want. There is more to it than just getting enough light on the film.

By using a 35mm camera you are limited to "reflective" metering, where you get a reading of the light reflecting off of the subject. The internal meter is calibrated to an 18% grey card (which means it thinks you are pointing it at a middle grey surface), so if your subject is very light (like a white car in front of a white wall) or dark (black cat on a dark blue rug) that reflective meter is going to give you an "incorrect" reading.

If you get a proper light meter you will also be able to take an "incident" reading, where you measure the light falling on the subject. This way you can avoid the whole pitfall of reflective metering.

The sekonic website does a great job explaining all this. I really think you should bite the bullet and get a meter. Yes, it will cost you more than the camera, but it will be worth it in the long run.

Joe
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#6 BradH

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 10:29 PM

Hi guys and welcome.

I'm sorry to sound like a broken record, but I feel like there is a case of "light meter" phobia running around. Light metering is complicated. You really have to learn how meters work, how different lighting conditions effect metering, and what kind of exposure you want. There is more to it than just getting enough light on the film.

By using a 35mm camera you are limited to "reflective" metering, where you get a reading of the light reflecting off of the subject. The internal meter is calibrated to an 18% grey card (which means it thinks you are pointing it at a middle grey surface), so if your subject is very light (like a white car in front of a white wall) or dark (black cat on a dark blue rug) that reflective meter is going to give you an "incorrect" reading.

If you get a proper light meter you will also be able to take an "incident" reading, where you measure the light falling on the subject. This way you can avoid the whole pitfall of reflective metering.

The sekonic website does a great job explaining all this. I really think you should bite the bullet and get a meter. Yes, it will cost you more than the camera, but it will be worth it in the long run.

Joe


Okay, maybe I should explain more. I have a Sekonic 328 light meter, a K-3 16mm motion picture camera, and a 35mm camera (with its internal light meter). I would like to learn how to expose my K-3 camera film for effect (not just exposure) and figure I could use my 35mm still camera in lighted set-ups and shoot lots of shots for cheap and discover how to better use my Sekonic light meter. This, of course, assumes that the 2 different films (16mm motion and 35mm still) expose close to the same for constant light temps, filters, and different camera shutter types. I've already been shooting lots of set-ups with my 35mm camera and have gained much knowledge already. Having this "novice" knowledge I'm now wondering if I will see similar exposure results using my Sekonic light meter when I start shooting on my K-3 or am I leaving something out that I need to consider?

Brad
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#7 Joe Gioielli

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 08:20 PM

Dear Brad,

Ah, now I get you. My short answer would be yes, to a point. Every film is different. But I think you could get an idea of what to expect by using still film that is the same ASA as the movie film and trying over and underexposure. It won't be the same because the chemical composition of the film, along with the lens, will be different. But if will give you something to work with.

Joe
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#8 BradH

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 11:39 PM

Thanks for the response. Hopefully my first roll of 16mm won't be as bad as I'm anticipating.

Brad
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#9 kwales

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 12:53 AM

I want to clarify a point Joe made. Yes, when you're using the internal light meter in a still 35mm, it is reflective, basing its exposure on the 18% grey which he stated. However, this is a good thing in many ways. I have a Sekonic L558-Cine, which has both reflective and incident metering, and let me tell you, I prefer the spot meter because I know what the light is offering my camera. Yes, you learn over time how to compensate for different surfaces. You know that when you expose an African American actor, you will need to take your reading, say 2.8, and compensate to a 2.8/4 split, or a 4 even. Incident metering is a great way to know quickly what you're light is doing, and keeps you from knit-picking too much on the lighting, but the spot really let's you control and know what all of your surfaces are doing.
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