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rating/exposing stock for snowshoot


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#1 Adam Wallensten

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 07:38 AM

Hello!

In about 10 days time I'm off to Norway to do a snowboardshoot on 16mm. My stock (Fuji 8622 64D and Kodak 7246 250D) is one to two years old. From what I've learnt on this forum I should overexpose old stock by 1/3 of a stop. Since I'm shooting on a K-3 which has a shutterangle of 150 degrees I have to open up additionally 1/3 of a stop. So totally I shall open the lens up 2/3 of a stop. Does this sound correct? I just want to make sure I'm exposing as correctly as possible.

What rating is 2/3 of a stop equivalent to on the 64 and 250 stock? Maybe it's easier not to rate the film differently and just try to remember to open up the lens for each shot.

Any other advice on shooting in snow will be appreciated.

Thanks

Adam
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#2 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 08:40 PM

Any other advice on shooting in snow will be appreciated.

Thanks

Adam

Dont forget to stop down to make up for the refection off the snow.
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#3 Landis Tanaka

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 12:33 AM

Dont forget to stop down to make up for the refection off the snow.


Wouldn't an ND filter fix that?



I too would like to know about shooting the snow, because I have a K-3 as well and Im only filming Alaskan freestyle BC skiing.
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#4 Adam Wallensten

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 03:38 AM

Dont forget to stop down to make up for the refection off the snow.


Hi charles. what du you mean exactly? do you mean I should avoid the snow cheating the lightmeter? If thats the case, wouldn't some spot readings of the person be enough (and ofcourse close the lens a stop or so to make up for the brighter skintone). If this is not what you mean, I would appreciate a more thorough explanation. Thanks, Adam
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#5 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 09:02 PM

Hi charles. what du you mean exactly? do you mean I should avoid the snow cheating the lightmeter? If thats the case, wouldn't some spot readings of the person be enough (and ofcourse close the lens a stop or so to make up for the brighter skintone). If this is not what you mean, I would appreciate a more thorough explanation. Thanks, Adam

yes, the snow is quite refective and so will throw off any normal light meter reading. Even an incident reading that does not take into account the refection. on snow your normal Sunny 16 exposure can end up being sunny 22. also the contrast beween light and shadow can be more severe.
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#6 Bryan Darling

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 11:02 PM

In my opinion it's far easier to just figure out what to rate the stock at for all the compensations and adjustments you need. That way you can use the reading your meter gives you without having to run math in your head while your on the spot. It really simplifies things and you can just focus on shooting cool shots. Make it easy on yourself :D
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#7 Chris Keth

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 12:15 AM

Hi charles. what du you mean exactly? do you mean I should avoid the snow cheating the lightmeter? If thats the case, wouldn't some spot readings of the person be enough (and ofcourse close the lens a stop or so to make up for the brighter skintone). If this is not what you mean, I would appreciate a more thorough explanation. Thanks, Adam



Yes and no. Even spot readings can be thrown off by all that snow just outside of it's acceptance area. Try it with a light, it can throw you off by 2 or even 3 stops sometimes.

Personally, I would spotmeter the snow and expose that way. It assures consistancy and makes sure you don't blow out the snow, which would really ruin shots with so much of it.
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#8 Hans Kellner

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 02:19 AM

Any other advice on shooting in snow will be appreciated.

I'm not a film guy but I've shot snowboarding with my DVX. I've found using my ND Grad filter very helpful for keeping the sky from being blown out. I've also rotated it so it aligns the slope.

You might also play around with a polarizer. Sometimes you will have a setup where it will pay off.

Edited by Hans Kellner, 14 April 2006 - 02:21 AM.

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#9 Stephen Williams

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 02:36 AM

yes, the snow is quite refective and so will throw off any normal light meter reading. Even an incident reading that does not take into account the refection. on snow your normal Sunny 16 exposure can end up being sunny 22. also the contrast beween light and shadow can be more severe.


Hi,

With a 150 degree shutter, old stock and wanting some overexposure I think you will be back to Sunny F16 Rule! If your camera has a built in TTL meter it would underexpose by 1.5-2 stops.

Away from the snow I would set the meter to 40 asa for the 64 asa and 160 for the 250.

Stephen
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#10 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 03:24 AM

No, no - you can't spotmeter the snow! It's supposed to be white = overexposed. That's like spotmetering a practical lamp and exposing for that!

Take an incident light reading, adjust your exposure down a bit if you feel you need to. But since the film was old and needed a little more exposure, I'd leave it where it is probably.
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#11 Michael Nash

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 04:04 AM

No, no - you can't spotmeter the snow! It's supposed to be white = overexposed. That's like spotmetering a practical lamp and exposing for that!


Well, no one said set the iris to the spot reading of the snow. You could decide how many stops "hot" you're willing to let the snow get, and set your iris that many stops below your spot reading.
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#12 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 08:26 AM

True. It didn't say that, but I just felt like that was implied. Anyway, if one is inexperienced with exposure I think that's a dangerous way to do bizniz, and much more involved and harder to get right. Personally, I can count the times I've needed a spot meter reading on one hand. And the last place I'd want tom start learning to use one, is off a white, reflective and shiny surface.
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#13 timHealy

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 12:42 PM

This is a funny thread.

If one takes an incident meter reading the bounce back from the snow will be included by your meter, no? Anyway thats the way I do it.

I agree with the gentleman to change your asa rating on your meter. don't calculate it everytime in your head. If you get busy with something you may forget on a shot. keep things simple. Also if you have a good meter that also recalculates the fstop if you change fps, all the better.

Take some ND filters with you. You may need them if it is bright and sunny. I did some shooting a few years ago at a Colorado ski resort and shooting 7245 with a ninety degree shutter, I was still working around an 11 or 16 fstop as I recall. Between the bright sun and the snow bounce back (and I assume altitude may have had an effect but I don't really have any evidence of that) I had some hefty stops. I was very surprised it was so high.


Best

Tim

Edited by heel_e, 14 April 2006 - 12:43 PM.

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#14 Chris Keth

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 02:24 PM

True. It didn't say that, but I just felt like that was implied. Anyway, if one is inexperienced with exposure I think that's a dangerous way to do bizniz, and much more involved and harder to get right. Personally, I can count the times I've needed a spot meter reading on one hand. And the last place I'd want tom start learning to use one, is off a white, reflective and shiny surface.



No, I apologize if my post implied that. Obviously adjust for the meter trying to trick you. I'm just saying that so that you still retain detail in the snow. It's such a large part of the shots that completely blown out snow would ruin a lot for me.
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#15 Michael Nash

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 10:41 PM

I have to admit that my snow shooting experience is somewhat limited, but I have ended up with some underexposed looking shots when I've tried to "protect" for the whiteness of the snow.

It seems to me that using an incident meter with the bulb pointed up at the main light source (either the sun or an overcast gray sky) would produce the most consistent results, by eliminating bounce from the equation. Then choose how much you want to overexpose that -- maybe 1/2 stop, in the case of hard sunlight.

Make sense, anyone?

The beauty of film is its latitude, and the amount of overexposure it can handle. I don't think I'd worry so much about protecting for sunlit snow, unless I was trying to frame action in the shade and there was a LOT of sunlit snow in the background. In that case I might try to split the exposure a little.
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#16 Adam Wallensten

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Posted 16 April 2006 - 07:11 AM

Well, thanks for all the responses. This forum is a great place for new knowledge. Seems like my snowshoot has been cancelled since the guy I was supposed to film broke his foot yesterday. Bummer. Well, I hope I'll get another chance to use your advice.

Adam
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