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Kinor 16CM-2m


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#1 Kirk Anderson

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 10:26 PM

I'm thinking about upgrading from my K3 to a sync sound camera, I'm choosing between a few, a cp-16r being my first choice, but I've come across a few Kinor 16cx-2m for really good prices. Does anyone have any experience with these cameras? why are they not popular with Indie kids a much as the K-3? Also, they shoot 25 fps sync sound, are there any complications with shooting 25 instead of 24 with post production or sound recording?

any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.
kirk

Edited by Kircules, 23 April 2006 - 10:26 PM.

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#2 Max Lundberg

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 03:51 PM

1. It's not crystal sync.
2. It's not that quiet(42dB (compare to arri bl, 31dB))
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#3 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 04:16 PM

Hi

=I'm thinking about upgrading from my K3 to a sync sound camera,
= I'm choosing between a few, a cp-16r =being my first choice,
= but I've come across a few Kinor 16cx-2m for really good prices.

Kior-16 SX-2M camera have high precision transport mechanism with registration pin.
The electrical motor 29EPSS of Kinor-16 SX-2 camera have one speed 25 fps, but, can be re-adjust on 24 fps without problme. This motor can be modify on multispeed edition with speeds from 12 fps up to 50 fps and on multi speed crystal sync edition.
That's why, Kinor -16 camera have wide possiblities.
You not must forger about big set of prome lenses from 6 mm up to 300 mm, zoom lenses 7.5-75 mm, 10-100 mm, 12-120 mm.
And, after you compare price of Kinor set and other West cameras with some characteristics you can see, Kinor-16 good choose for filmmakers.


=1. It's not crystal sync.
Kinor-16 SX-2M camera can have 10EP-16 APK motor with real crystal synch (XTAL ) speed control.
This motor can have 25 fps or 24 fps speed.

=2. It's not that quiet(42dB (compare to arri bl, 31dB))
42 DB this is maximum volume of noise show on user manual.
The good serviced, adjusted camera can have noise less 42 Db.

From other side, you can compare price of Arri BL and Kinor-16
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#4 Evan Kubota

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 06:23 PM

I started in 16mm with a Bolex then went to a Scoopic that had a poorly calibrated lens (must have been taken apart at some point) and gave kind of soft footage. For dialogue shooting I got a Kinor.

I should have the first footage back next week - I shot 300' of Plus-X neg outside.

My impression of the camera is that it's relatively heavy compared to a K3 or Bolex (but not bad compared to a CP-16 or Arri) and it's not too noisy, although its not whisper quiet. From 15-20 feet away sound should not be an issue.

The 10-100mm zoom seems to be great and the 6mm prime is really cool as well.

As Olex pointed out, for quiet, pin-registered cameras in this price range there's really no other competition. I paid a shipped total of $550 for the body with the 10-100, 12-120, 6mm and 20mm lenses (also a .75x adapter). It also came with five 100' mags (one of which was broken) and a 400'.
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#5 Kirk Anderson

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 09:49 PM

thanks guys
can you post some still or some footage? So, is the camera sound sync or not?
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#6 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 03:22 AM

= So, is the camera sound sync or not?

Depend from type of motor.

Kinor-16 SX-2M can have motors :

1. 29EPSS - 25 fps ( 24 fps possible ) analog system of speed stablization, precision of speed 2.5% ( not crystal sync ),
have Pilot-Tone system and can be sync with sound recoder with Pilot signal .

Can be modify to multispeed motor with analog system of speed stabilization, or multispeed ( 6 or 10 or 16 speeds ) crystal sync speed, microprocessor controlled system.
The microprocessor controller have a few fixed speeds, soft start, soft stop, manual adjust of phase of speed, test run on low speed, sound signal and other.

The crystal sync motors not need sync with sound recoders.

2. 10EP-16 APK 25 fps ( 24 fps possible ) digital , crystal sync speed control? precision 0.01%
Can be modify on multy speed version too.

3. A few versions of AC ( 110/220 v )motors.
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#7 Bryan Darling

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 04:56 AM

Honestly, I would you get an Arri 16 BL. I've had it on two sync-sound films that I've directed and it is wonderful! It is a solidly built performer and we never experienced any quirks. If you are going for sound work you should really invest in a trusted system that can be easily maintained and has a history. That is my opinion at least :D
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#8 Evan Kubota

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 04:12 PM

Kinors have a history too, just not in the Western world ;)

Some stills at my site: http://plaza.ufl.edu/ekubota/film.html

These were all from the 6mm prime. The 10-100mm zoom is apparently slightly sharper, of which I have some other footage that will be posted later.

The BL is brutally heavy, fairly expensive, and limited in lens options... nice camera but I'd rather go for something cheaper and more comfortable.

Also, sample footage:

http://plaza.ufl.edu/ekubota/18.mov

SD Rank telecine to miniDV by Cinelab. Shot on Plus-X negative.

In retrospect I don't even notice that it was shot at 25 fps and transferred at 24. Do you?
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#9 andres victorero

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 04:24 PM

Kinors have a history too, just not in the Western world ;)

Some stills at my site: http://plaza.ufl.edu/ekubota/film.html

These were all from the 6mm prime. The 10-100mm zoom is apparently slightly sharper, of which I have some other footage that will be posted later.

The BL is brutally heavy, fairly expensive, and limited in lens options... nice camera but I'd rather go for something cheaper and more comfortable.

Also, sample footage:

http://plaza.ufl.edu/ekubota/18.mov

SD Rank telecine to miniDV by Cinelab. Shot on Plus-X negative.

In retrospect I don't even notice that it was shot at 25 fps and transferred at 24. Do you?


the pics look great but the link doesn´t work (mov file)

Edited by andres victorero, 02 May 2006 - 04:24 PM.

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#10 Matt Lazzarini

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 07:36 PM

Kinors have a history too, just not in the Western world ;)

Some stills at my site: http://plaza.ufl.edu/ekubota/film.html

These were all from the 6mm prime. The 10-100mm zoom is apparently slightly sharper, of which I have some other footage that will be posted later.

The BL is brutally heavy, fairly expensive, and limited in lens options... nice camera but I'd rather go for something cheaper and more comfortable.

Also, sample footage:

http://plaza.ufl.edu/ekubota/18.mov

SD Rank telecine to miniDV by Cinelab. Shot on Plus-X negative.

In retrospect I don't even notice that it was shot at 25 fps and transferred at 24. Do you?



Wow, footage looks great! Good job! Now I'm even more excited about getting my Kinor :D
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#11 Kirk Anderson

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 08:18 PM

awesome, did you shoot any sync sound you could post?
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#12 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 03:03 PM

=Wow, footage looks great! Good job! Now I'm even more excited about getting my Kinor

P.S
A some additional technical information about Kinor-16 .
Kinor-16 SX camera can have version "1M", this is camera with turret for 3 lenses, BUT- the mechanism of camera have variable angle of shutter disk 50..170 dergee.
Today, the many filmmakers use small angle of shutter disk for trick effect.
The front panel of 1M version ( turret ) can be change on front panel from 2M ( one lens mount ) version.
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#13 Galen Carter-Jeffrey

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 05:14 PM

=Wow, footage looks great! Good job! Now I'm even more excited about getting my Kinor

P.S
A some additional technical information about Kinor-16 .
Kinor-16 SX camera can have version "1M", this is camera with turret for 3 lenses, BUT- the mechanism of camera have variable angle of shutter disk 50..170 dergee.
Today, the many filmmakers use small angle of shutter disk for trick effect.
The front panel of 1M version ( turret ) can be change on front panel from 2M ( one lens mount ) version.


What kind of trick does a small shutter angle do?
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#14 David W Scott

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Posted 05 May 2006 - 12:32 PM

Hey Evan, your footage looks great! Are you matting for widescreen in post, or did you modify the camera to shoot Super/Ultra 16?


Kinors have a history too, just not in the Western world ;)

Some stills at my site: http://plaza.ufl.edu/ekubota/film.html

These were all from the 6mm prime. The 10-100mm zoom is apparently slightly sharper, of which I have some other footage that will be posted later.

The BL is brutally heavy, fairly expensive, and limited in lens options... nice camera but I'd rather go for something cheaper and more comfortable.

Also, sample footage:

http://plaza.ufl.edu/ekubota/18.mov

SD Rank telecine to miniDV by Cinelab. Shot on Plus-X negative.

In retrospect I don't even notice that it was shot at 25 fps and transferred at 24. Do you?


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#15 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 06 May 2006 - 01:34 PM

P.S
The modifed multispeed motor of Kinor-16 SX camera with digital voltmeter of battery.
[attachment=1187:attachment]
Modification of motor version -3
- set 6 pcs of fixed speeds from 12 fps up to 50 fps
- variable, hand setting speed from 16 fps up to 50 fps.
- digital voltmeter for control condition of battery with precision 0.1v.
- 4 pin XLR Cannon power connector

The other Crystal sync modification can be:

Modification of motor version ?Crystal sync -6+DV
- set 6 pcs of fixed speeds 8, 12, 16, 24, 25, 32 fps.
- digital voltmeter for control condition of battery with precision 0.1v.
- soft start of motor

Modification of motor version ?Crystal sync -10+DV
- set 10 pcs of fixed speeds from list
6.25, 8, 12.5, 15, 16, 16.6, 20, 24, 25, 30, 32, 33,3, 40, 48, 50
- digital voltmeter for control condition of battery with precision 0.1v.
- soft start of motor
- manual adjust of phase of speed
- slow speed test run and turn
- test low speed run

Modification of motor version ?Crystal sync -16+DV
- set 16 pcs of fixed speeds
6.25, 8, 12.5, 15, 16, 16.6, 20, 24, 25, 30, 32, 33,3, 40, 48, 50
- digital voltmeter for control condition of battery with precision 0.1v.
- soft start of motor
- manual adjust of phase of speed
- slow speed test run and turn
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#16 gregorscheer

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Posted 06 May 2006 - 11:36 PM

the pics look great but the link doesn´t work (mov file)


Works for me maibe you need to update to quiktime 7
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