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#1 Michael Collier

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 02:36 PM

I know there are other red threads, but now that its out (on paper at least) I thought I would start a new one on here and see if anyone thinks they hit the mark. The numbers look damn good. 4520x2540 sounds great. Option to record everything from 720p to 4K sounds great. They talk about dynamic range, but give no figures to back it up, thats kinda lame. The body is weird looking but we will see if its functional. 120fps at 2K!!! thats awsome, i dont care who you are thats awsome.


I even like the fact that you can window the chip (although you are cut down to a measly 2K raw 4:4:4 resolution.) this means that you can attach old 16mm lenses you already have, and they will cover the sensor.

It says varible frame rate, but they do not specify weather its in steps, like the new panny, or if you can dial any speed you want down to the frame.


oh, and by the way.....17,500 a peice (less lens. It has a PL mount and they have their own lens availible for under 5K, probably not the best zoom, but decent for anything up to HD resolution. past that get the absolute best glass you can, because at 4K resolution, you might actually need it. (I still want to see a working prototype and a film shot and lasered onto a projection stock. that will be the true test for me, but for 18K, maybe its worth taking it for a spin)
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#2 Chance Shirley

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 02:58 PM

I wonder if a better subtitle for this thread might be "IF it's real, it's cool."

You said it yourself: "I still want to see a working prototype and a film shot and lasered onto a projection stock."

Heck, I'd like to see ONE FRAME of footage from this camera converted to JPEG and stuck on a web page somewhere.
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#3 Michael Nash

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 03:55 PM

Gas prices deterred me from making the trip to NAB this year, so I'm feeding off the misinformation highway about this one.

Here's some stuff:
http://www.studiodai...lines/6388.html
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#4 Kim Vickers

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 04:23 PM

They talk about dynamic range, but give no figures to back it up


I read 66 dB on one of the other Red threads, roughly 11 stops. The specs are definitely impressive, but I want to see some real-world footage at 1080p or 2K before I get excited. Strange that they've got no footage at all to show. Kind of a waste of a marketing opportunity. Tells me this thing is more "dream" than reality. I'm not expecting it to be available for at least a full year, likely longer. Who knows, even a Leviathan like Sony might be able to beat Red to the punch, now that they see what the cine market actually wants.

Any word on Final Cut or Avid support?
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#5 Chris Cooke

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 06:09 PM

I'm really interested in this camera but there are a lot of questions that I've yet to get clear answers on. Does anyone know if they've adressed the latitude problem that is inherent to video? Also, what do have to carry around to record all of this information and what kind of editing support is there for 4K? I just can't quite picture the 2nd AC carrying around a RAID all day instead of magazines. If they can get this camera w/ all of its support right, starting at $18,000, I'd be one happy camper. I'm just not quite convinced yet.
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#6 Kim Vickers

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 06:28 PM

If they can get this camera w/ all of its support right, starting at $18,000, I'd be one happy camper. I'm just not quite convinced yet.


Ditto. Sounds almost too good to be true -- and that's exactly why I'm skeptical. I'd love nothing more than to be proved wrong.
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#7 Michael Collier

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 08:30 PM

People said the same thing about the HVX-200 from panny. it turned out to be real. The footy, I understand. Why show footage when you have yet to nail down the final aspects of the product. Obviously they do have a working prototype (they would not release as much info as they did) and on their site they said tests on the imaging sensor came back good. They would not release a price if they were not far along, but also they wouldnt show the prototype if its not ready to show (would you show a rough cut of your movie to an audience like that?)
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#8 Chad Stockfleth

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 04:08 PM

it looks like a spaceship to me. i hope it can fly.
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#9 Joe Gioielli

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 06:39 PM

Guys, this just doesn't smell right. You have to give them $1000 upfront as a reserve on a camera that you cannot go anywhere and see, feel, touch.

So there is a big huge company full of experts behind this camera, but apparently they don't have enough cash on hand for product roll out?

Perhaps this thing is real. Perhaps the company is little short of cash. There why don't they get a venture capitalists to finance them? Or just licence the camera to another manufacturer? If it is as good as it claims to be, you would think either option wouldn't be problem?

I'm no expert, I can't even balalnce my own check book. What they hell do I know? But I wouldn't give anyone a penny for a product that I have no proof exists.

Why not wait until you can actually pick one up and play with it.

Interesting Topic, though.
Joe
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#10 Nathan Milford

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 06:44 PM

Word is, the grand is to seperate the serious folk from the others and it's fully refundable, but your place in line isn't transferable if you get the refund.

I suppose Jannard is good for it >8)
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#11 Tenolian Bell

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 08:49 PM

Only if you consider a empty mock up behind a thick glass case real or cool.


People said the same thing about the HVX-200 from panny. it turned out to be real.


RED is of several magnitudes different on what it promises than what Panasonic delivered with the HVX-200.

If Panasonic promised and deliver the HVX-200 with uncompressed 1080 24P that would be somewhat comparable.
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#12 Kim Vickers

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 11:26 PM

Go to this site, scroll down a bit and click on the link that points to "Phantom HD and Phantom 65" camera information.

http://www.visionresearch.com/

They're talking about a 70mm-equivalent digital camera and an HD camera, both with high-speed capabilities.

Here are the quick specs on the HD version:

Full frame 16:9 aspect ratio CMOS sensor composed of 1,920 x 1,800 pixels (24mm x 13.5mm) making it compatible with all 35mm equipment
1000 pictures per second full resolution with 14-bit image depth
128 Gigabyte ?Hot-Swappable? non-volatile Flash magazine w/docking station
Dual fiber optic output to Image3 storage system
PL lens mount (standard)

And for the "Phantom 65" camera:

Full frame 2.2:1 aspect ratio CMOS sensor composed of 4,096 x 2,440 pixels (51.2mm x 30.5mm) equivalent to 70mm film
125 frame per second full resolution with 14-bit image depth


Competition is good.
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#13 Tenolian Bell

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 11:55 PM

I asked a rep at the RED booth, what's with the design of the camera.

Its basically a chrome shaft.

Where is the viewfinder?

Where do you physically place a recording device?

Where do you plug in a recording device?

Where are the menus and setting?

How do you use this camera in the real world?
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#14 Joe Taylor

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 12:12 AM

I asked a rep at the RED booth, what's with the design of the camera.

Its basically a chrome shaft.

Where is the viewfinder?

Where do you physically place a recording device?

Where do you plug in a recording device?

Where are the menus and setting?

How do you use this camera in the real world?



And what did he say?
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#15 Tenolian Bell

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 12:53 AM

You can tell they were prepared for negative feedback and were pretty short on answers out side of their standard marketing pitch.

He said the cage design enabled customers to modulate the camera anyway they want.

The problem with that is no one wants a camera that you use like an Erector Set. We want the manufacturer to figure out the hard stuff so we can use the equipment as easily as possible in the field.

In the end he said the camera is still under design and anything can change.
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#16 Tim Tyler

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 10:45 AM

After watching the pitch outside the tent, which included phrases like "Red DOES this" and "Red DOES that" and "The camera HAS fully variable frame rates from 1 to 60fps." and "The Mysterio sensor HAS xxx X xxx resolution" I went into the booth and asked them why the scripted pitch spoke of the camera as if it actually existed. I asked why the pitch was not worded to speak of the camera that will exist sometime in the future. The rep brought my attebtion to the large 'In Development' sign over the tent's door and offered no other answer.

I asked them to see the 'finished lens' that was in the case. It was nose-down in the case with caps on both ends so glass could not be seen, nor could any inscriptions on the front of the lens. They refused.

If you asked me, I'd say P. T. Barnum was right.
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#17 Chance Shirley

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 12:09 PM

Everybody's favorite non-camera apparently won a NAB award:

http://www.hdforindi...mera-wins-award
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#18 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 12:54 PM

Hi,

> People said the same thing about the HVX-200 from panny. it turned out to be real.

And rubbish. Have you seen it up on a good HD monitor next to an XLH1? The pictures are horrible.

Phil
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#19 Peter J DeCrescenzo

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 01:01 PM

Everybody's favorite non-camera apparently won a NAB award:
http://www.hdforindi...mera-wins-award

I hear the "Murdoch VW8000 Digital Cinematography Camera" got the second place award! :)

Just joking ...
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#20 Kim Vickers

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 02:02 PM

Would anybody care to rate the probability that Red will see competition from one of the majors (Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Viper, etc, etc), in both features AND price-range, by the time Red actually launches?
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