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Loading Arri S 400 mag


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#1 jason zephyr

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 07:08 PM

I'm having trouble loading this thing. Film is a little new to me. I've had minimal experience with 16mm.

When I thread the film out through the mag and then back in, do I need to bend the tip of the film just a little? Otherwise the film, because of its "natural" curve, tends to want to go back in the way it came out.

I really hope this makes sene.
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#2 jason zephyr

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 07:51 PM

If I dont have to bend the film a little, I guess that means that Im threading it wrong?
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#3 Hunter Sandison

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 09:29 PM

Hello Jason,
Are you talking about the take up throat? You don't have to do what i would call "bend" the film, but the loop does curve in the opposite direction from the way its wound on the core(so the emulsion side faces out). The loop should be large enough that this is not akward at all. SR mags are extremely intuitive to load(in my opinion) so odds are that you're doing right. I hope this answers your question. I admit that I'm a little unsure of exactly what you're asking. Good Luck
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#4 Tim Carroll

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 09:31 PM

Go to this web site and download the free "Generic Arriflex 16S-B Operating Manual" PDF, it covers loading the magazines for the Arriflex 16S.

Arri16S.com

Hope that helps. You might want to download some of the other free PDFs while you are there, there is a lot of information about the Arriflex 16S.

-Tim
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#5 Hunter Sandison

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 10:32 PM

Hey Jason,
I'm sorry, I misread your topic heading. I thought we were talking about Arri SR mags when in fact the S's
were the magazines in question. It is just this kind of laser trained attention to detail that makes me a top notch 2nd A.C.. Please disregard my previous post.
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#6 chris hoag

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 11:18 PM

instead of starting a new topic im just gonna tag this question on here. after you have loaded the magazine for an arri s in total darkness can you then attach it to the camera and thread it past the gate and all that in the light or does it still need to be in total darkness?
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#7 Tim Carroll

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 11:46 PM

instead of starting a new topic im just gonna tag this question on here. after you have loaded the magazine for an arri s in total darkness can you then attach it to the camera and thread it past the gate and all that in the light or does it still need to be in total darkness?


You do not need to do this in total darkness, but the loop that is exposed while you are loading will not be usable. But you are only talking a foot or two at the head of a 400 ft roll. Now if you are taking the mag on and off for some reason, then you are going to be losing alot of film each time. But if you load the mag in your changing tent in complete darkness and then load it onto the camera outside the tent, you lose the first foot or so, then shoot the whole mag and lose about a foot at the end, not too bad.

-Tim
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#8 Rik Andino

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 03:13 AM

If I dont have to bend the film a little, I guess that means that Im threading it wrong?


The Arri S mags are very easy to load...
All you need to is make sure the take-up is wound tight...and in the right direction
You can bend tear scratch the tip of the roll does't matter...it won't get used...
As long as the take-up is tight (so it won't dish) you're cool.

If you think the Arri S is hard try loading Arri 16BL mags (or Arri 16M)

It takes a bit of time to get used to it in darkness...
but once you've got it--easier than eating pie.


Good Luck
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#9 jason zephyr

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 07:31 AM

Thanks everyone.

Tim I went to the site, I like it. I have looked through the manuals before and they do help. But when it comes to loading the film I wanted to make sure and for some reason the instructions I read were a little awkward to read. Here I can ask specific questions and get specific answers, unlike reading a manual. But I do thank you for the link.

Chris, no problem posing your question here, it helped me as well.

Another thing, I'm having great difficulty getting the film to attach to the yellow core. It doesnt stay in the little groove. I know using tape isnt the best idea because tape can cause problems - but is it common to use tape anyway, just for this occasion? Is a collapsible core better than a yellow one? I've never used a collasible core before. I'd have to buy one.

Thanks again.
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#10 Tim Carroll

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 08:13 AM

I spent a good part of one day at the ARRI booth at NAB this week and one of the discussions that broke out and caused some laughs was just what you asked, "What is the best way to attach the film to the take up spool?" And mind you, the folks in the discussion were experienced DPs and the ARRI camera design engineers, folks with no lack of experience with 16mm cameras.

What many folks do, including myself, is take the first 1/8" to 3/16" of film and fold it back on itself (bend it over and it wants to spring back slightly) and push that into the little slot on the core, then wind the core around at least one and a half times, I usually do it two times. This keeps the film pretty well attached to the core.

Hope that helps,
-Tim
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#11 Rik Andino

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 12:39 PM

I know using tape isnt the best idea because tape can cause problems -
but is it common to use tape anyway, just for this occasion?
Is a collapsible core better than a yellow one? I've never used a collasible core before.


Do not--I repeat--DO NOT USE TAPE to attach the film to the take up core...
It will jam in the machines during processing if it's not removed.

like Tim say an easy way to do it is to fold the film and push into the slot
And wind it around the core a few times...I'd do it three or four times to make it tight.
You should be alright after that.

You can use collaspsible cores, which are easier to wind the take up film...
But when loading out they're a pain in the ass--
You have to pull out the collaspsible core and push a regular core into the wound film so it won't dish.
I once spent an hour in the bag trying to push a core into wound up film...and it dished anyway.
I hate collaspsible cores.

Good Luck
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#12 jason zephyr

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 03:32 PM

Do not--I repeat--DO NOT USE TAPE to attach the film to the take up core...
It will jam in the machines during processing if it's not removed.

like Tim say an easy way to do it is to fold the film and push into the slot
And wind it around the core a few times...I'd do it three or four times to make it tight.
You should be alright after that.

You can use collaspsible cores, which are easier to wind the take up film...
But when loading out they're a pain in the ass--
You have to pull out the collaspsible core and push a regular core into the wound film so it won't dish.
I once spent an hour in the bag trying to push a core into wound up film...and it dished anyway.
I hate collaspsible cores.

Good Luck

Thank you very much, thats very helpful advice.

You know whats funny...in one of the old arri S manuals they suggest using Scotch tape. They also say that a zoom lens is an affordable way to duplicate dollying in...ahhh funny stuff.

I guess it's similar to today's thinking that today's video technology duplicates film. But I guess that's another conversation.
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