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Excited but confused


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#1 MikeFalg

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 04:30 PM

Just got my camera about 2 weeks ago...Recently shot subject on green screen in 60i...OK material but I'm not satisfied...I hope the goodman's guide will be helpful...I need info on shooting in 24p...I test shot some footage and I'm getting a serious "frame delay" look. ALSO...I edit in Final Cut Pro 5.0 and was unable to capture the 24p footage...Any suggestions???
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#2 John Ealer

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 05:30 PM

Just got my camera about 2 weeks ago...Recently shot subject on green screen in 60i...OK material but I'm not satisfied...I hope the goodman's guide will be helpful...I need info on shooting in 24p...I test shot some footage and I'm getting a serious "frame delay" look. ALSO...I edit in Final Cut Pro 5.0 and was unable to capture the 24p footage...Any suggestions???


What is a "frame delay" look? What deck are you using?
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#3 MikeFalg

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Posted 28 April 2006 - 08:19 AM

What is a "frame delay" look? What deck are you using?


Sorry for the weak descriptive "frame delay"...the picture is "stuttering"? or maybe "flickering"? especially on pan and tilt shots...

The deck I'm using is a Panasonic AJSD93 (firewire)

Thanks for the response
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#4 John Ealer

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 10:06 PM

Sorry for the weak descriptive "frame delay"...the picture is "stuttering"? or maybe "flickering"? especially on pan and tilt shots...

The deck I'm using is a Panasonic AJSD93 (firewire)

Thanks for the response


24P material, due to the lower fps, i.e. temporal sampling rate, will generally exhibit that "flickering" look when compared to 60i or even 30p. It's inherent in the frame rate, and it's one aesthetic contributor to a "film look." Any 24 fps format will exhibit more flicker if you pan or tilt too fast, whether it's 35mm film or HD or SD. So first thing to try is to slow down your pans and tilts.

One of the reasons that I think it can be more objectionable in cameras with 2/3" sensors is that you have inherently more depth of field than 35mm film. In general, the sharper the image is overall (for instance, because of increased depth of field), the more you'll perceive this flicker. So another thing to do to reduce perceptual flicker is to shoot at a wider iris / with longer lenses so you have less DOF.

Finally, make sure you set the shutter is set to 1/48th of a second. A faster shutter speed, like 1/60 or higher, will reduce motion blur and enhance the perception of "flicker."

As for your firewire deck problems, there are so many variables. Try different cables and double check all the FCP device control settings and / or your capture card settings.

J
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#5 Michael Collier

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 10:44 PM

How is the 24p encoded? Sometimes they add a 2:3 pulldown, sometimes they just duplicate every 4th frame.

If they are duplicating you have to remove that frame and add the 3:2:2:3 pulldown. If it already has a pulldown, sometimes it is not the highest quality pull down. In this case you can pull the original frames from the pulldown with special software, and then add a higher quality pulldown. This can reduce the stutter effect after the fact.

Atavist had some great sugesstions for reducing stutter while shooting.
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#6 John Ealer

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 10:55 PM

How is the 24p encoded? Sometimes they add a 2:3 pulldown, sometimes they just duplicate every 4th frame.

If they are duplicating you have to remove that frame and add the 3:2:2:3 pulldown. If it already has a pulldown, sometimes it is not the highest quality pull down. In this case you can pull the original frames from the pulldown with special software, and then add a higher quality pulldown. This can reduce the stutter effect after the fact.

Atavist had some great sugesstions for reducing stutter while shooting.


With the SDX-900, 24P mode uses 2:3 pulldown, 24PA uses 2:3:3:2...to record DVCPRO50 at 29.97 on tape...

The in camera pulldown has always produced excellent results for me.

J
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#7 Michael Collier

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 05:21 AM

I have never worked with the SDX-900, but I hear its good. I got to try out their SPD(?)-700, they P2 camera (the cheaper one without cine-gama) and found it was really quite good. Cheap for DVCPRO50 recording.

I never liked the DVX-100 pulldown. I always shot in Advanced mode so I could do my own pull down.
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#8 MikeFalg

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 10:04 AM

24P material, due to the lower fps, i.e. temporal sampling rate, will generally exhibit that "flickering" look when compared to 60i or even 30p. It's inherent in the frame rate, and it's one aesthetic contributor to a "film look." Any 24 fps format will exhibit more flicker if you pan or tilt too fast, whether it's 35mm film or HD or SD. So first thing to try is to slow down your pans and tilts.

One of the reasons that I think it can be more objectionable in cameras with 2/3" sensors is that you have inherently more depth of field than 35mm film. In general, the sharper the image is overall (for instance, because of increased depth of field), the more you'll perceive this flicker. So another thing to do to reduce perceptual flicker is to shoot at a wider iris / with longer lenses so you have less DOF.

Finally, make sure you set the shutter is set to 1/48th of a second. A faster shutter speed, like 1/60 or higher, will reduce motion blur and enhance the perception of "flicker."

As for your firewire deck problems, there are so many variables. Try different cables and double check all the FCP device control settings and / or your capture card settings.

J


Thank you very much for your response...as I become more familiar with the camera, I'm sure this information will be very useful...BTW: Your demos on your website are incredible. Was any of that material shot with the SDX900? It looked to me like 35mm...Awesome work!
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#9 John Ealer

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 10:45 AM

Thank you very much for your response...as I become more familiar with the camera, I'm sure this information will be very useful...BTW: Your demos on your website are incredible. Was any of that material shot with the SDX900? It looked to me like 35mm...Awesome work!


Thanks, most is 35mm. The Prop 68 stuff is SDX-900 with Digiprimes, a killer combo if you're finishing for SD.

J
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#10 Stephen Whitehead

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 10:58 AM

Thanks, most is 35mm. The Prop 68 stuff is SDX-900 with Digiprimes, a killer combo if you're finishing for SD.

J



Hey Atavist, I just have a quick question for you. I was watching your work on your website. And the "Your It" spot about film cancer made use of sort of a floating/moving camera on a lot of the exterior shots. I am just curious as to what method was employed to get those shots, was it on a tri-pod, handheld, or steadicam?

Cheers,

Steve
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#11 John Ealer

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 11:13 AM

Hey Atavist, I just have a quick question for you. I was watching your work on your website. And the "Your It" spot about film cancer made use of sort of a floating/moving camera on a lot of the exterior shots. I am just curious as to what method was employed to get those shots, was it on a tri-pod, handheld, or steadicam?

Cheers,

Steve

That floating look is what you get when you put a 10:1 Optimo zoom on a 435 and turn off all the friction on the head.

J
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#12 MikeFalg

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 09:23 AM

Thanks, most is 35mm. The Prop 68 stuff is SDX-900 with Digiprimes, a killer combo if you're finishing for SD.

J


Could you please inform of "Digiprimes"...I read an posting earlier that recommended "Zeiss Digiprime" Is it a lens, filter?

Thanks
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