Jump to content


Photo

16 mm vs super 16 mm


  • Please log in to reply
5 replies to this topic

#1 rucine

rucine

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Student

Posted 29 April 2006 - 03:41 PM

Can you see difference on the screen? Is the grain realy so bigger what you can see a difference? How to test to know that?
  • 0

#2 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 29 April 2006 - 03:53 PM

Can you see difference on the screen? Is the grain realy so bigger what you can see a difference? How to test to know that?


Hi,

Shooting 7212 and telecine via a Spirit for TV then probably not. With 7218 probably you would see. Blown up to 35mm for 1:1.185 then yes.

The only way to test is to shoot both formats back to back and view. In a telecine you could zoom in to a standard 16 frame from a super 16 frame to see the change in grain size.

Stephen
  • 0

#3 Joshua Reis

Joshua Reis
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 108 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 29 April 2006 - 04:32 PM

If you are framing for 4:3 (1.33 TV), there is no difference in graineyness and resolution between standard and Super 16. When framing for 1.85, standard 16mm, 26% of the exposed area is wasted/cropped (.404x.218) giving Super 16 46% more exposed negative (.488x.263). The advantage of shooting Super 16 vs. Standard 16mm for widescreen acquisition is tremendous for blow-ups to 35mm or HD transfers. For letterboxed NTSC projects, the difference will noticeable, but subtle. Anton Wilson's. "Cinema Workshop, A.S.C. Holding Corp. 1983. has a great chapter comparing the two formats. The most economic way to test would be to shoot both formats side by side and do a comparison in telecine.


Can you see difference on the screen? Is the grain realy so bigger what you can see a difference? How to test to know that?


  • 0

#4 Jonathan Benny

Jonathan Benny
  • Sustaining Members
  • 166 posts
  • Other
  • Vancouver, Canada / Paris, France

Posted 29 April 2006 - 08:16 PM

Can you see difference on the screen? Is the grain realy so bigger what you can see a difference? How to test to know that?


The difference really starts to manifest on the big screen and depends on the types of shots you are looking at (and what you are looking for on the image).

On a blowup, wider shots that have subjects further away tend to suffer a great deal in small format blowups. The difference between a regular 16 wide shot and a super 16 wideshot might be more noticeable than the closeups. But either way, with the regular 16, you will see a lot more grain "dancing" around trying to resolve detail in the image.

AJB
  • 0

#5 rucine

rucine

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Student

Posted 05 May 2006 - 04:14 PM

All big thanks for answers!
my friend want to buy the photosonic 1PL that is why he interested. And it interested for me because i saw the material after this camera (7218, 1.85) and i saw the grain on the TVscreen... but in this situation we had no choice.
  • 0

#6 Ian Marks

Ian Marks
  • Guests

Posted 05 May 2006 - 05:37 PM

And with a high speed camera like the Photosonics (assuming you're shooting slo-mo), your exposures for each frame will be very brief, necessitating the use of high speed film, further exacerbating the grain problem.
  • 0


rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Opal

FJS International, LLC

Tai Audio

CineTape

Willys Widgets

Ritter Battery

Technodolly

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineLab

Visual Products

Abel Cine

Metropolis Post

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Rig Wheels Passport

Aerial Filmworks

Glidecam

Wooden Camera

Paralinx LLC

CineTape

Ritter Battery

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Metropolis Post

Willys Widgets

Rig Wheels Passport

Wooden Camera

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Paralinx LLC

CineLab

Visual Products

The Slider

Technodolly

rebotnix Technologies

Opal

Abel Cine

Tai Audio

FJS International, LLC

Aerial Filmworks

Glidecam

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS