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Canon 1014 XLS or a Beaulieu?


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#1 Brian Rose

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 07:36 PM

I know this is an age old topic, but I'm looking at getting a nice super 8 camera. Everything I've read thus far is divided between the Canon 1014 XLS and the Beaulieu line. Which would you recommend? What kind of Beaulieu? I'm not too familiar with the various makes and their pros and cons. Thanks!
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#2 Stuart McCammon

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 07:05 AM

I know this is an age old topic, but I'm looking at getting a nice super 8 camera. Everything I've read thus far is divided between the Canon 1014 XLS and the Beaulieu line. Which would you recommend? What kind of Beaulieu? I'm not too familiar with the various makes and their pros and cons. Thanks!
Brian Rose


This is a nice page with some real-world experience to share on that topic:

http://www.city-net....mm/camtest.html

That said, I went and bought a Canon 1014E - its your dime pal)
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#3 A.Oliver

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 09:41 AM

Hi, 1014xls is a great run and gun camera, optics are good in sunny weather, image goes soft in low light, never managed to get any sharp footage from my 1014xls in grubby f1.4-f3.5 lite. I have owned 3 canon 1014xls over the years along with my rarely used 814xls, all were/are soft in low lite. Canon is a reliable camera, auto exp is good. Beaulieu 4008 range of cameras have a 1/87th sec shutter at 24fps, imo the images looked to stroby, prefer the 6008 and 7008 range instead. Providing you get a beaulieu that lens is properly adjusted/set up to the camera body, you will get much sharper images, especially in low lite compared with the canon. Best lenses for the 6008/7008 are 6-70, 6-66 and 6-80, cannot comment on the 6-90. The 6-66 is said to be the sharpest zoom made for the super 8 format. Angeniuex 6-80 is an amazing peice of glass, aperature is measured in T stops. Dont overlook the 5008 range of cameras, these often go for less cash than the 6008/7008. I recommend beaulieu 5008,6008,7008 and not the 1014xls
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#4 santo

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 01:38 PM

Two very different cameras and philosophies at play. The home movie maker and delusional person who doesn't know any better versus the serious filmmaker who wants complete control over their filmmaking and recognizes that manual everything and professional design is how real filmmaking is done. The former is the choice for home movie makers and amateurs, the latter is the choice for artists and commercial filmmakers. Canon or Beaulieu? Depends on what you are and how you are approaching these things and how serious you take super 8.
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#5 Brian Rose

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 02:35 PM

"Depends on what you are and how you are approaching these things and how serious you take super 8"

You make an excellent point. Let me put it this way: I have previous experience with Super 8, but I want a better camera to use for an upcoming class on Super 8. I expect most of my classmates to be unfamiliar with film in general. My goal is to blow their films out of the water. I want to produce the sharpest, steadiest picture, with the most amount of control over quality. So, you would then suggest the Beaulieau, I take it? Which model would you recommend? It is my understanding that these cameras have some battery issues...
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#6 Matt Pacini

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 02:49 PM

My vote would go to the Canon.
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#7 Rachel Oliver

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 03:20 PM

[quote name='Brian Rose' date='May 9 2006, 08:35 PM' post='104404']
"Depends on what you are and how you are approaching these things and how serious you take super 8"

I want to produce the sharpest, steadiest picture, with the most amount of control over quality.

Hi;

you should also check out the Leicina Special, probably the steadiest and sharpest images in S8 with fantastic control....

Olly
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#8 A.Oliver

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 03:50 PM

Hi, i agree with Olly, sharpest and steadiest footage, leicina special with 10mm macro cinegon lens, though current reversal colour reversal stocks excluding fuji 50, aint the greatest stocks in the world to blow your fellow colleages away with.( 64t is grainy may t/k ok but crap for projecting, 100d is grain free but not as sharp as the old k40). Finding a leicina may prove difficult, especially in mint condition. My vote is still a beaulieu, look for one with the 6-80 lens, get it serviced. Forget the 1014xls.

Edited by k25rip, 09 May 2006 - 03:51 PM.

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#9 Stuart McCammon

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 04:03 PM

the serious filmmaker who wants complete control over their filmmaking and recognizes that manual everything and professional design is how real filmmaking is done.

Actually, the serious filmmaker uses a blimped Super 35 camera with dual-pin registration and shoots through Zeiss primes, an Angieneux 10-1 and ground glass filters lol)

However, if you like the "run what you brung" aspect of Super 8, it seems like an interesting challenge to see how good of an image you can squeeze out of a thrift store camera - that's why I am doing it, anyway.

YMMV)
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#10 S8 Booster

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 06:04 PM

santo knows nothing about cams n filmmasking and definately noit the superior specs n superior performance of the canons.

first he was into the zeisses and when they worked poop he turned to lecinas (read toys) and when they didnt pay off he - due to my recommendations turn to the somewhat beteer like beaulieus - except for the poop availble nunderdog to canon lenses to whats your next retreatment el-insano?
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#11 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 12:00 AM

I tend to believe the Canon's are spectacular.

I rarely get to shoot with a Canon because I do a lot of Time-exposure which the canon does not do. I've seen some ultra sharp over the years that was shot by others, however it was probably shot around f 5.6 or higher, mostl likely with the regular shutter setting versus the low light shutter setting. The Canon low light shutter setting could make the image look "softer" if the shot is either handheld or there if there is motion in the shot. I guess the real test would be to do a tripod mounted, regular shutter test, not the 220 degree shutter, in lower light, and see if the image is soft like some claim.

At this point in time I'm of the opinion that even if the Canon is soft on the lower end of the f-stop scale that anything higher than an f 2.8 should be sharp, but that's just speculation and I would like to find out for myself.
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#12 santo

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 08:09 AM

santo knows nothing about cams n filmmasking and definately noit the superior specs n superior performance of the canons.

first he was into the zeisses and when they worked poop he turned to lecinas (read toys) and when they didnt pay off he - due to my recommendations turn to the somewhat beteer like beaulieus - except for the poop availble nunderdog to canon lenses to whats your next retreatment el-insano?


Well, the question was between Beaulieu and Canon. Obviously the Leicina Special is the ultimate super 8 camera, pretty much without competition except for the Beaulieu 7008 maybe, but that was not what was asked.

Fantastic post as always, Booster. Reminds me to pick up some good Vodka today. This Norwegian Vikingfjord looks darn good. I usually stick to ice cold Stolichnaya when I do enjoy some, but obviously there's some good stuff coming from Norway. Perfect idea for a rainy day here! Cheers!
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#13 Chris Graham

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 11:24 AM

the Canon 1014 XLS is a great camera for what it is, but it's a fixed toy for most cinematographers, meaning too limited. If it weren't for the fixed lens or cartridge capacity the Canon would win hands down, but yeah Beaulieu and Leicina are the top ones to be honest. depends on what type of work you're doing. more flexibility and style of choice with changeable lenses. just my 2 cents
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#14 nathan coombs

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 01:25 PM

Lets not forget that the Beaulieus and Lecicinas look cool and make you feel proud. The Canons look like retro toys in comparison.

...or alternatively buy a Beaulieu R16 and you have a fantastic looking camera, with all the features of a top-end super-8 cam, but with 16mm quality.
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#15 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 06:26 PM

the Canon 1014 XLS is a great camera for what it is, but it's a fixed toy for most cinematographers, meaning too limited. If it weren't for the fixed lens or cartridge capacity the Canon would win hands down, but yeah Beaulieu and Leicina are the top ones to be honest. depends on what type of work you're doing. more flexibility and style of choice with changeable lenses. just my 2 cents



Except that most of the times the situations one finds themself in doesn't require a lens change nor is it realistic that an actual lens change could be done as easily as one thinks. Crews are usually so small and super-8 cameras are so portable that it is easier to just end up far away from the original staging area.

The canon can be accessorized with a wide angle attachment AND frankly the new wave of video 2x and 3x extenders may prove to be a gold mine for the low cost filmmaker interested in having amped up zoom capabilities.

If there is a weak link, perhaps a 6mm prime on a beaulieu might be a very nice way to go, but the 1014XLS does have a 6.5 on the wide side. I have heard that as time goes on not all Canon camera lenses hold up equally as well because of the glue that was used on key components in the lens design.

By the way, I love the way the Canon's look, a 25 year old camera with a finish on it that still looks like the day it was made is not that retro.
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#16 Maulubekotofa

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 08:13 PM

go for cannon so when super 8 stops being a format you can sell it and move up to 16mm beauxlew is a waste in the small format becos of film type cancellations
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#17 dustwaterwindfire

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Posted 15 May 2006 - 10:03 PM

I dont know, when I hear these kind of discussions I tend to think that the point is moot. I am brand spanking new to film. But I am not new to art. I have been artist/musician for 20 years and in the music business 10plus. if there is one thing that I have learned is that the tool has little (relatively speaking) to do with the final outcome. I am all for the best most perfect tool but lets not forget what drives the art. my favorite record was recorded in 1936, way before multi-track and 2 inch tape and protools and anything that would distinguish a "pro" user from "novice". I guess what I am getting at is pick a tool and make art, in the end you have what you have. learn it master it, if you can make a masterpiece with junk then you can make one with anything. canon, Beauleiu, Leicina they all take cood enough pictures to make good art.
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#18 A.Oliver

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 05:03 AM

True, but you need a camera that wont produce soft and possibly unusable pictures when the light levels are low, the canon will go soft in low lite.

Edited by k25rip, 16 May 2006 - 05:04 AM.

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#19 Robert Hughes

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 02:59 PM

When light levels are low, don't waste your film - shoot video.

In bright light, any camera will do.

I own a 4008. Someday I hope to have enough money to get it working. Meanwhile I use a Nikon R8 in bright light or a Bauer 715XL for its great 6-90 Angenieux lens.
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#20 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 04:26 PM

When light levels are low, don't waste your film - shoot video.

In bright light, any camera will do.

I own a 4008. Someday I hope to have enough money to get it working. Meanwhile I use a Nikon R8 in bright light or a Bauer 715XL for its great 6-90 Angenieux lens.


Film offers a myriad of approaches in lower light.

If you want to figure it out, you can, or you can be take the simple approach and shoot video.

Without knowing your script I can't tell you the way I would do it but low light is not necessarily a deal breaker when it comes to shooting Super-8.
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