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What on earth....!!!!! ???? !!!!


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#1 Freya Black

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 05:49 PM

This is slightly off-topic as It's not out yet but all the same...

I've been curious about this for a while and I've finally seen the trailer...

http://progressive.s...1_fhywet_dl.mov

Is that early new order on the sound track?????

I've got to say this wasn't quite what I was expecting at all.
This is either going to be a work of the greatest genius, or utter, utter, utter, rubbish, or just plain weird.

Theres a part of me leaning towards the latter already.

The titles remind me of the breakfast club or preety in pink or something, I'm not sure what.

...and at least on the trailer it's all so beautiful and daylight.
I have to say if I was making a film on such a subject matter it would all be a lot darker and nastier!
Hey what about the workers??! ;)

It looks like a genre film from some sort of twisted other dimension. Theres something very Merchant Ivory meets Teen Wolf about it all???

It's very strange...

Hmm I can imagine the conversation:

Freya: "That looked a bit weird to me"
Sophia "That's rich coming from you! Didn't I hear you were working on a video involving tractors or something???"
Freya *scowls*, "They aren't exactly tractors..."
Sophia: "Whatever!" :)
Freya:"But don't you think it should be a bit darker and all"
Sophia: "No, of course not, they're just having a great time, eating cake, wearing preety clothes, dancing, theres no revolution or anything to worry about yet."
Freya: "Yes but what about the workers, what about liber..."
Sophia: "Oh don't be silly Freya that's all too depressing, who would want to see that"
Freya: "Well a family of young girls killing themselves isn't exactly uplifting is it, but you know life isn't all..."
Sophia: "Whatever! So it didn't sell you on the film then?"
Freya: "Well I did like the trees a lot..."
Sophia: Freya, you ALWAYS like the trees!
Freya : Well trees are nice!
Sophia: "I must make sure you don't end up attending any of my test-screenings."

It has to be said that if I was making this film I'd probably start off with a seance or something and flash back from there so I really can't talk. All the same...

You are all going to tell me this looks completely normal to you, aren't you?

love

Freya

Edited by Freya, 09 May 2006 - 05:51 PM.

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#2 Mike Kaminski

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 06:32 PM

An interesting choice to be sure. Personally I'm glad that some form of originality is being brought to a tired genre. The film looks like it will ignore all of that Revolution stuff that happened later in her life.
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#3 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 11:52 PM

I don't see why you find this so weird? The only weird thing about it is the music and the titles obviously aimed at drawing in a younger audience. That's probably why the provokative shot of Marie in the nude with the fan was included (my personal favorite part of the trailer). Because of that shot, I was a little surprised the trailer was approved for all audiences, but it didn't show anything and went by so fast they probably just let it go. The rest is pretty much standard historical drama stuff, a little Barry Lyndon like.The film is probably about Marie as a carefree young woman who is full of life and the producers feel it will play well to a younger audience, hence the modern music and titles. Most 14 year olds don't care about hstorical dramas, this packaging is designed to peak their interest.

Edited by Capt.Video, 10 May 2006 - 12:01 AM.

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#4 Freya Black

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 05:31 AM

An interesting choice to be sure. Personally I'm glad that some form of originality is being brought to a tired genre. The film looks like it will ignore all of that Revolution stuff that happened later in her life.


I agree, I think it actually looks really interesting. I was expecting her to maybe put a new twist on things but not to go as far as it appears she might have. It was sort of interesting to start with, that she made Marie the centre of the film whereas most stories would of course concentrate more on the revolution. I was expecting that from the title but Sophia seems to have thrown all the revolution stuff out the window at least at first glance. :)

On top of that it slashes heavily into the genre. The nearest example perhaps being Amadeus but I'm not sure that went anywhere near this far.

If she pulls this off, it will be an incredible achievment, and even if she fails horribly, it will still make for a very interesting experiment. I'll feel bad if she fails at it because it is great to see someone trying something new. I suspect it will be just weird at worst however, which I will obviously be okay with. ;) Of course other people may not feel the same way! :)

However we could be getting a funny idea from the trailer. ;)

Shame we have to wait so long to see the thing!

love

Freya
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#5 Alex Wuijts

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 05:49 AM

I saw the trailer when i went to see Inside Man. From the trailer i have absolutely no idea what to expect. It could be pop-garbage, it could just as well become a cult hit.
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#6 Freya Black

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 06:15 AM

I don't see why you find this so weird? The only weird thing about it is the music and the titles obviously aimed


Say Captain, I think you like to play devils advocate! ;) But what the hey! ...

at drawing in a younger audience. That's probably why the provokative shot of Marie in the nude with the fan was included (my personal favorite part of the trailer). Because of that shot, I was a little surprised the trailer was approved for all audiences, but it didn't show anything and went by so fast they probably just let it go. The


Interesting you think that might upset the censors because eveything is covered really, but maybe it is too suggestive to them. I think that this will be central to the film however, and that Marie will be depicted as a young carefre lady, living it up! :)

rest is pretty much standard historical drama stuff, a little Barry Lyndon like.The film is probably about Marie


EXACTLY! That is what is quite radical about it. It seems very. very much like a costume drama genre film, like Mercaht/Ivory etc. However those films are all very serious, at least in their intent, and I think this is going to be more of a fun happytime film. That in itself would be a break from the genre but in additon...

as a carefree young woman who is full of life and the producers feel it will play well to a younger audience, hence the modern music and titles. Most 14 year olds don't care about hstorical dramas, this packaging is designed to peak their interest.


I don't think the producers are responsible for that music unless Sophia is one of the producers! This is very much a Sophia choice of soundtrack. She generally has preety good taste in music, especially for a Hollywood filmmaker. In fact for Hollywood films, her taste could be described as impecible. Honestly, it's not the producers making these decisions but definitely Sofia. It's got her M.O. all over it.

I'm also not sure that early New Order can be described as modern music. I don't recognise the paticular track but for a second I thought it might be joy division, which would have been really radical given the images! ;) However it's certainly more modern than is usual for this genre, which would probably contain classical music and orchestras.

I could be wrong however and Sofia might have got New Order to record new songs for the film. I was utterly shocked to hear what sounded like loveless era M.B.V. on the lost in translation soundtrack that I didn't recognise at all. Turned out she had got Kevin Sheilds to record new songs, something Island records never managed to do. (I think the only thing M.B.V. recorded for Island was a cover of "we have all the time in the world" which was suitably ironic!)

What 14 year olds would make of New Order and Joy Division etc, I'm not sure. I loved that stuff when I was 14 but it was a while ago, and I was maybe not the best example of your average 14 year old!

The titles may well not be Sofias doing. I have no idea, when you look at the rest of the film, they seem to make sense however.

In fact most of what is strange and unusual about it, is exactly what you said. I wasn't expecting this to have the teen movie element that the titles and coca-cola atmosphere might suggest. I wasn't expecting the film to completely blow apart the genre to the extent that it appears it might. I've never seen anyone try to do such a thing with this genre with the possible exception of Amadeus and that is a very distant relative, going by the trailer.

It's just quite a suprise after knowing this film was coming for so long and having all kinds of pre-conceptions about it.

I bet Sophia is giggling away somewhere already at the thought of this hitting the movie theatres! I do hope so anyway. :)

Go Sofia!!!! :)

love

Freya

I saw the trailer when i went to see Inside Man. From the trailer i have absolutely no idea what to expect. It could be pop-garbage, it could just as well become a cult hit.


Exactly, but even pop garbage would be kind of radical, especially as Ms Atoinette is so linked with a paticular period of history. *shrug*. It's going to be really intersting.

Wish I got to see the trailer with the Inside Man. Seems like an appropriate film for the trailer actually, seeing as the Inside Man was so full of deconstructing genre as well.

love

Freya

Edited by Freya, 10 May 2006 - 06:17 AM.

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#7 Alex Wuijts

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 08:11 AM

Exactly, but even pop garbage would be kind of radical, especially as Ms Atoinette is so linked with a paticular period of history. *shrug*. It's going to be really intersting.

Wish I got to see the trailer with the Inside Man. Seems like an appropriate film for the trailer actually, seeing as the Inside Man was so full of deconstructing genre as well.

love

Freya


Well it's probably gonna be something special, you can expect that from Sofia Coppola ofcourse. It's also that sweet sweet face of Kirsten Dunst with her porcelain smile. I never quite know what to think of her.
The soundtrack is the imdb page by the way: http://www.imdb.com/...2720/soundtrack
Lot's of eighties mixed with some newer hipster music like the strokes and air.
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#8 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 06:12 PM

That's a strange trailer. The only stranger trailer I've seen lately is Apocalypto. The difference is that Marie Antoinette looks interesting and Apocalypto looks silly. Neither of them has any dialogue.
Thanks for posting that.
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#9 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 08:47 PM

Say Captain, I think you like to play devils advocate! ;) But what the hey! ...

I'm always nothing if not controversial :D

Interesting you think that might upset the censors because eveything is covered really, but maybe it is too suggestive to them. I think that this will be central to the film however, and that Marie will be depicted as a young carefre lady, living it up! :)

Naw, I didn't think it would upset them particularly, I just figured it would get a PG rating not G

EXACTLY! That is what is quite radical about it. It seems very. very much like a costume drama genre film, like Mercaht/Ivory etc. However those films are all very serious, at least in their intent, and I think this is going to be more of a fun happytime film. That in itself would be a break from the genre but in additon...


Well Perhaps merchant/Ivory film, Freya My dear, not nessesarily all piriod pieces! Tom Jones w/ Albert Finney, Cassanova w/ Tony Curtis, Cassanova's Big Night w/ Bob Hope, Amadeus which I believe you already mentioned. and dozens of others I know I've seen but can't think of off the top of my head, are fun romps and very light hearted.

I don't think the producers are responsible for that music unless Sophia is one of the producers! This is very much a Sophia choice of soundtrack. She generally has preety good taste in music, especially for a Hollywood filmmaker. In fact for Hollywood films, her taste could be described as impecible. Honestly, it's not the producers making these decisions but definitely Sofia. It's got her M.O. all over it.

I meant that the marketing people which the producers would have hired.

I'm also not sure that early New Order can be described as modern music. I don't recognise the paticular track but for a second I thought it might be joy division, which would have been really radical given the images! ;) However it's certainly more modern than is usual for this genre, which would probably contain classical music and orchestras. I could be wrong however and Sofia might have got New Order to record new songs for the film. I was utterly shocked to hear what sounded like loveless era M.B.V. on the lost in translation soundtrack that I didn't recognise at all. Turned out she had got Kevin Sheilds to record new songs, something Island records never managed to do. (I think the only thing M.B.V. recorded for Island was a cover of "we have all the time in the world" which was suitably ironic!) What 14 year olds would make of New Order and Joy Division etc, I'm not sure. I loved that stuff when I was 14 but it was a while ago, and I was maybe not the best example of your average 14 year old!

Maybe not "came out last week" new but more accessable to a younger crowd than sayThe Moonlight Senada

The titles may well not be Sofias doing. I have no idea, when you look at the rest of the film, they seem to make sense however.

The titles look less like Pretty in Pink and more like a porn movie to me. :rolleyes:

In fact most of what is strange and unusual about it, is exactly what you said. I wasn't expecting this to have the teen movie element that the titles and coca-cola atmosphere might suggest. I wasn't expecting the film to completely blow apart the genre to the extent that it appears it might. I've never seen anyone try to do such a thing with this genre with the possible exception of Amadeus and that is a very distant relative, going by the trailer.

It's just quite a suprise after knowing this film was coming for so long and having all kinds of pre-conceptions about it.

I bet Sophia is giggling away somewhere already at the thought of this hitting the movie theatres! I do hope so anyway. :)

Go Sofia!!!! :)


love

Freya


I actually didn't pay attention and didn't realize till you mentioned it that this was a Sophia Copalla picture. I really like her work and am sure she's done something very interesting and you won't be dissapointed. :)
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#10 Freya Black

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Posted 13 May 2006 - 11:58 AM

I actually didn't pay attention and didn't realize till you mentioned it that this was a Sophia Copalla picture. I really like her work and am sure she's done something very interesting and you won't be dissapointed. :)



Well Perhaps merchant/Ivory film, Freya >My dear, not nessesarily all piriod >pieces!

This is true but here in England, Merchant/Ivory is reffered to as almost being a type of film, as in "that's very Merchant/Ivory"

I found they have a webpage! Sadly the Merchant in "Mercant/Ivory" has passed away which is a little sad:

http://www.merchanti...ilmography.html


>Tom Jones w/ Albert Finney, Cassanova w/ >Tony Curtis, Cassanova's Big Night w/ Bob
>Hope, Amadeus which I believe you already >mentioned. and dozens of others I know
>I've seen but can't think of off the top >of my head, are fun romps and very light >hearted.


I think I've seen Tom Jones but that wasn't quite what I meant. I've not seen Cassanova, but it is the kind of subject matter that might lend itself in that direction but Amadeus definitely heads into this kind of territory.

I meant that the marketing people which >the producers would have hired.

Even so, I doubt they had any input whatsoever.

In fact I can say this for certain because I've since worked out that the early new order song that sounds a bit like joy division, is in fact a song that Ian Curtis wrote and was the first New Order single. It's been years since I heard it.

I can't imagine the marketing people would let that get by!!!

Theres something about that which seems vaguelly appropriate given what happens to Marie Antoinette.

It also seems a little strange. ;)

love

Freya

Edited by Freya, 13 May 2006 - 12:01 PM.

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#11 Rod Otaviano

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Posted 13 May 2006 - 12:16 PM

I found another trailer (with dialogs) here:

http://www.allocine....it=HD&emission=
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#12 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 13 May 2006 - 06:01 PM

Well Perhaps merchant/Ivory film, Freya >My dear, not nessesarily all piriod >pieces!

This is true but here in England, Merchant/Ivory is reffered to as almost being a type of film, as in "that's very Merchant/Ivory"

I found they have a webpage! Sadly the Merchant in "Mercant/Ivory" has passed away which is a little sad:

http://www.merchanti...ilmography.html


>Tom Jones w/ Albert Finney, Cassanova w/ >Tony Curtis, Cassanova's Big Night w/ Bob
>Hope, Amadeus which I believe you already >mentioned. and dozens of others I know
>I've seen but can't think of off the top >of my head, are fun romps and very light >hearted.


I think I've seen Tom Jones but that wasn't quite what I meant. I've not seen Cassanova, but it is the kind of subject matter that might lend itself in that direction but Amadeus definitely heads into this kind of territory.

I meant that the marketing people which >the producers would have hired.

Even so, I doubt they had any input whatsoever.

In fact I can say this for certain because I've since worked out that the early new order song that sounds a bit like joy division, is in fact a song that Ian Curtis wrote and was the first New Order single. It's been years since I heard it.

I can't imagine the marketing people would let that get by!!!

Theres something about that which seems vaguelly appropriate given what happens to Marie Antoinette.

It also seems a little strange. ;)

love

Freya


Ya, I was also sorry to hear about Ismail Merchant as well. They did some amazing pictures together. I hope James Ivory will be able to continue on with the work. Their films were incredably beautiful and stylish . The world has definiately lost something with his death.
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#13 jef bryant

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Posted 13 May 2006 - 06:28 PM

Just for the record (pun intended): The song on the trailer on the Apple site is "Age of Consent" by New Order, off of the album "Power, Corruption, and Lies" from 1983. The song on the French trailer (the one with the dialog) is "Ceremony", which, as mentioned above, is officially New Order, but was written in the last days of Joy Division.

I love Coppola's use of this kind of music. I was thrilled when I heard one of my favorite Jesus and Mary Chain songs in the "Lost in Translation" trailer, then heard it in the film at the climactic moments.
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#14 Filip Plesha

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 08:26 AM

oh never mind

Edited by Filip Plesha, 14 May 2006 - 08:28 AM.

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#15 fstop

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 07:08 PM

Can anyone say, Plunkett and McKleane?

VERY suprised to find out Lance Accord shot this! I just assumed this was Phillipe Rousellot, Miroslav OndrĂ­cek or Tony Pierce Roberts doing their period thing. I think we'd all kill to shoot a film like this, particularly doing it half as good. Unfortunately, the contrast of beautiful on-set workmanship and poorly judged high school media studies directorial decisions regarding soundtrack and title graphics only further fuel the notion that Mr. Accord may well be the one calling shots on the floor.

PS: Thought the jaded, post modern Gen Y antics ended with New Order? Both Aphex Twin and Adam Ant (?) are also on the soundtrack.
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#16 Jon-Hebert Barto

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Posted 15 May 2006 - 12:38 AM

No wonder Tarantino and Coppola are together...They both fuse nostalgia for their youth in their work, moreso than others I believe. I love Sophia but hope she doesn't make all her movies with rich-teen-pop music from the 1980s. Then again, what the hell do I know. She can make her movies any way she wants to! I'm sure this will be a fine film. For some reason I don't see her making any stinkers in her career. Kinda like her poppa...well, except for "Jack"!

Freya- M.B.V. suppossedly has a boxed set coming out some day?! At least thats what I've heard. Kevin Sheilds is reported to have a whole albums worth of never released material. :blink: Anyway, just thought you'd like to hear from the rumor mill. :)
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#17 Freya Black

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Posted 15 May 2006 - 04:37 AM

Just for the record (pun intended): The song on the trailer on the Apple site is "Age of Consent" by New Order, off of the album "Power, Corruption, and Lies" from 1983. The song on the French trailer (the one with the dialog) is "Ceremony", which, as mentioned above, is officially New Order, but was written in the last days of Joy Division.

I love Coppola's use of this kind of music. I was thrilled when I heard one of my favorite Jesus and Mary Chain songs in the "Lost in Translation" trailer, then heard it in the film at the climactic moments.


Thanks for clearing that up for me! I was getting very confused. I asked someone else what the song was on the trailer and they said it was ceremony and so I thought it must be as it is the only new order song in the listing of songs for the film but I was very suprised because I didn't recognise it and while it's been a good many years, I felt sure I should recognise it. It was kind of a preety significant song.

Also while the music was vaguely joy division sounding the lyrics seemed a bit too, well up beat. :)
Just seen the other trailer with ceremony, and it's interesting the way they've used the music but managed to hide all the lyrics. ;) This other trailer is a lot darker however, so maybe it makes more sense here

So she is going to deal with the revolution...

Totally agree about the mary chain. I loved the soundtrack of lost in translation. For me it was the films big saving grace as while I thought it was okay, for me, it was a dissapointment after the virgin suicides. I was still glad the film was critically acclaimed the way it was, as I wouldn't want people to strike poor Sofia down before she got started and it certainly wasn't a bad film (of which Hollywood produces sooooo many).

I think I might have a copy of power corruption and lies somewhere. I might go down to the basement and see if I can find it! :) Ironically I'm more in a joy division mood again this last year or so, (like when I was little) but if I have a copy maybe it will be good to have it around, in case things get better for me again! ;)

love

Freya

Edited by Freya, 15 May 2006 - 04:38 AM.

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#18 Freya Black

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Posted 15 May 2006 - 05:51 AM

I found another trailer (with dialogs) here:

http://www.allocine....it=HD&emission=


Thanks for that! On the one hand this makes the film look a little more conventional and hence less interesting, On the other hand it makes me actually really want to see the film as opposed to wanting to dive into the factory records back catalogue! ;) Although having said that it's probably because I've seen the 2 trailers that I want to see the film.

Anyway, thoughts on the trailer. First up the thing that really freaked me out on this one, was the extreme American accents. Ms Antoinette has a very American accent, it's hard to imagine her being Austrian. This was heightened even more by the French subtitles in this paticular trailer which made it all seem very odd! ;) It almost seemed like the film was set in America and not France at all. However, having watched the trailer a couple of times, I am genuinely wondering if the film IS set in America and not France, specifically Hollywood perhaps?

I really, really liked the way the supporting actor in the background shakes his head and his facial expression when she asks if it's not too much.

I loved the voice over on this one, but then it probably is a bit Freyish anyway. I liked the comparison between the cake and the dress and I think my favourite bit are the shots that juxtapose the cake and the shoes. :)

Lots of cake in this trailer I notice! ;)

and of course the ending has a scene with a mob with burning torches. I'm always drawn to films with evil mobs with burning torches, I even like to call my house the castle, so this gets my vote.

I like the look of it a lot but I have to confess to some reservations. I love the soundtrack but the titles do look really 80's, and in fact they look like a specific film, but I can't work out what. I keep typing in titles of films into google only to find they have all redesigned their dvd covers, but bizzarely the names of the films I have typed in so far have all been from 1985 exactly.

Some here have suggested that this might be down to some nostalgia for the 80's, and the 80's were a very bad period in time that ruined peoples lives, and which are still affecting my life to this day. All the terrible things happening now seem to have their roots in the 80's*, the 80's will destroy us, and the reason why there was some good music in the 80's is exactly for this reason. It isn't because the 80's were great but exactly the opposite. I can not feel anything but Anger about the 80's. Certainly no nostalgia. If this is the aim here, then this is bad.

Which brings us on to the other side of the film quite neatly. If the film concentrates too much on the cake and happy rich people in palaces, then we can end up losing the fact that the people of France are starving out there. We don't get to really empithaise with them because we don't really know them. When they finally come to her door we just feel that they have come to hurt her, not that they have been hurting all this time.

There certainly is the opportunity to show more of the ordinary people as alledgedly Marie Antoinette used to like to dress up as common people and wander around in the real world a little (bit of a vacation for her I expect), and it will be interesting to see if this is in the movie.

*shrug* I wish I could ignore all this stuff and just have fun! watching the movie! :)

love

Freya


*at least if we ignore the man with the bad facial hair who ruined everything! :(
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#19 fstop

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Posted 15 May 2006 - 08:00 AM

I like the look of it a lot but I have to confess to some reservations. I love the soundtrack but the titles do look really 80's, and in fact they look like a specific film, but I can't work out what. I keep typing in titles of films into google only to find they have all redesigned their dvd covers, but bizzarely the names of the films I have typed in so far have all been from 1985 exactly.



Pretty sure it's PRETTY IN PINK, a film which also had a couple of decent NEW ORDER tracks. Either that or Alex Cox's SID AND NANCY (both 1986).

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I wouldn't read too much into the song selections. Coppola is obviously just trying to do the whole student soundtrack (Aphex Twin, post-punk Adam Ant/New Order) in order to signpost some alternative music cred for the Donnie Darko/Trainspotting audience she's apparently representing. This will be 'Marie Antoinette' with all the subtley of a sledgehammer.
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#20 fstop

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Posted 15 May 2006 - 08:15 AM

Then again, maybe Coppola does have a genuine affection for Howard Deutch directed (inferior) John Hughes movies. JESUS AND MARY TRAIN were on the soundtrack to SOME KIND OF WONDERFUL.
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