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Second Film to Tape Transfer without Key Code


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Posted 10 May 2006 - 03:40 AM

Hi,

I just made a short on R16. My DP suggested doing a cheap one light telecine first (to DV CAM), and doing a best light for the selected takes/shots after the picture is locked to save money. I took his advice, and did a one light, but as I wasn't familiar with the whole process, I didn't have key code burnt in, or get a FLEX file--all I have now is video time code. And since I had the intention of doing a film-tape transfer later again, my master is DV CAM. I'm not going back to film, and my original final output was DigiBeta (after the second film-tape telecine with best light).
Now I don't know what to do. Can anyone tell me what to do to get the highest quality possible (and not too expensive) in this situation?

Thanks in advance for your help.
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#2 Stephen Williams

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 05:20 AM

Hi,

I just made a short on R16. My DP suggested doing a cheap one light telecine first (to DV CAM), and doing a best light for the selected takes/shots after the picture is locked to save money. I took his advice, and did a one light, but as I wasn't familiar with the whole process, I didn't have key code burnt in, or get a FLEX file--all I have now is video time code. And since I had the intention of doing a film-tape transfer later again, my master is DV CAM. I'm not going back to film, and my original final output was DigiBeta (after the second film-tape telecine with best light).
Now I don't know what to do. Can anyone tell me what to do to get the highest quality possible (and not too expensive) in this situation?

Thanks in advance for your help.


Hi,

The first frame of picture should have a sync mark. That should match with an hour or at least minute of timecode. The telecine operator must set the film to the same timecode, then you can use the original timecode for reference.

Do a Best light pass to DigiBeta of the selected takes.

Stephen
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Posted 10 May 2006 - 03:13 PM

Hi,

The first frame of picture should have a sync mark. That should match with an hour or at least minute of timecode. The telecine operator must set the film to the same timecode, then you can use the original timecode for reference.

Do a Best light pass to DigiBeta of the selected takes.

Stephen



Thank you Stephen,

So there is a sync mark on the first frame of the first film roll? Am I understanding correctly?
And also, on a second or frame level would it be impossible to match the sync mark with the original timecode?

Sorry if I sound stupid, I'm not familiar with all the technical stuff...

Thanks
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#4 David Cox

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 04:36 PM

What Stephen was correctly referring to is the following normal practise. Your original telecine operator would have located a mark on the front of each roll of film they transferred. This marker is traditionally a hole punch in the film. Most probably they would have transferred your first roll to video tape with the marker frame on that roll hitting exactly a 1 hour time code (01:00:00:00). For the next roll, they would have made the marker hit the 2 hour code etc. So the hour of the timecode on your rushes says which film roll those rushes came from.

So you *should* have DVcam tapes with timecodes matching the patterns above.

From your edit, you can generate an EDL that says where you got each shot from, in video timecode form from your DVcam rushes. When you go back to telecine, they can use this EDL to measure from the hole punch to the required sequence. For example, if you used a shot starting at 01:00:21:04 they will go 21 seconds and 4 frames from the hole punch on roll 1 and that will be the same frame.

What they will then probably do is create a new telecine transfer onto a higher quality tape of your choice (Digi Beta, HD tape etc) that has broken ascending time code. In other words, this tape will only contain the shots you need to transfer and they will be transferred onto a timecode that matches your original rushes. The timecodes on this new tape will break and jump forwards between takes, but this makes no difference to the conform process providing the timecode jump is always upwards.

Since your new telecine shots have the same timecodes as your original transfer, you can use the same EDL to autoconform your new rushes.


David Cox
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Posted 10 May 2006 - 09:39 PM

What Stephen was correctly referring to is the following normal practise. Your original telecine operator would have located a mark on the front of each roll of film they transferred. This marker is traditionally a hole punch in the film. Most probably they would have transferred your first roll to video tape with the marker frame on that roll hitting exactly a 1 hour time code (01:00:00:00). For the next roll, they would have made the marker hit the 2 hour code etc. So the hour of the timecode on your rushes says which film roll those rushes came from.

So you *should* have DVcam tapes with timecodes matching the patterns above.

From your edit, you can generate an EDL that says where you got each shot from, in video timecode form from your DVcam rushes. When you go back to telecine, they can use this EDL to measure from the hole punch to the required sequence. For example, if you used a shot starting at 01:00:21:04 they will go 21 seconds and 4 frames from the hole punch on roll 1 and that will be the same frame.

What they will then probably do is create a new telecine transfer onto a higher quality tape of your choice (Digi Beta, HD tape etc) that has broken ascending time code. In other words, this tape will only contain the shots you need to transfer and they will be transferred onto a timecode that matches your original rushes. The timecodes on this new tape will break and jump forwards between takes, but this makes no difference to the conform process providing the timecode jump is always upwards.

Since your new telecine shots have the same timecodes as your original transfer, you can use the same EDL to autoconform your new rushes.
David Cox
Baraka Post Production



Thank you David.

I think I understood how it's going to work, but I have one more question. When I did my first transfer, instead of doing independent a time code for each roll like Roll1=1hour, Roll2=2hour, Roll3=3hour, and so on, they transfered to DV CAM tapes with a consecutive time code with Roll 1 starting at 01:00:00:00. Would this make any difference to the process I'm going to do?

Thank you so much.
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#6 David Cox

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 07:06 PM

Thank you David.

I think I understood how it's going to work, but I have one more question. When I did my first transfer, instead of doing independent a time code for each roll like Roll1=1hour, Roll2=2hour, Roll3=3hour, and so on, they transfered to DV CAM tapes with a consecutive time code with Roll 1 starting at 01:00:00:00. Would this make any difference to the process I'm going to do?

Thank you so much.


Well it doesn't make too much difference in that the time code that the original mark ended up on with your original transfer, still needs to be the same time code that your new transfer ends up on. Its just a little harder to work out which roll you are looking at and a little more difficult to work out how far into the roll you go.
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Posted 11 May 2006 - 09:26 PM

Well it doesn't make too much difference in that the time code that the original mark ended up on with your original transfer, still needs to be the same time code that your new transfer ends up on. Its just a little harder to work out which roll you are looking at and a little more difficult to work out how far into the roll you go.



Thanks David,

I see... but I'm glad to know that it doesn't seem to make the situation that hard. I will do a second telecine in the way you guys suggested.

Thanks a lot!!
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Metropolis Post

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