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Opinions On This ACL, etc . . .


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#1 Javier Calderon

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 06:44 PM

Hello all. I've recently began serious R&D regarding 16MMs. I'm presently finishing my first feature, and should be finished by the end of this year (crossing fingers). I am desirous of shooting my next film on super 16 for possible 35 screening. I was sold (I mean SOLD) on the Bolex . . . until I arrived at this site and began reading all the (very) helpful posts on here (I've started from the very first post and am working my way up . . . so it's taking a while).

I need a good sound sync camera, and, much as I WANT(ed) to go w/a Bolex (EBM, for example), I'm learning that they are pretty loud . . . ACLs, on the other hand, are much quieter no?

Okay. With this in mind, here's my question(s).

1) I saw this particular item on Ebay (I know there are risks buying on Ebay, but 1) I'm still looking in case I see a good, good deal, and 2) I'm, of course, on a serious budget):

http://cgi.ebay.com/...I...Q:US:1&rd=1

I asked the seller if it was French or British made, and they said French. It has two days left and so I was wondering if it seems like a good candidate for bidding. It seems good, but, then again, what do I know right?

Also

2) It says it's an ACL . . . Is there a significant difference between the ACL, ACL 1, 2, and 3?

Sorry for the long winded question, but I'm (again, very) excited about my learning more and more regarding film, and I want to continue to educate myself.

Thank you everyone very much in advance,
Javier Calderon
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#2 Alex Ardenti

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 07:26 PM

Hello all. I've recently began serious R&D regarding 16MMs. I'm presently finishing my first feature, and should be finished by the end of this year (crossing fingers). I am desirous of shooting my next film on super 16 for possible 35 screening. I was sold (I mean SOLD) on the Bolex . . . until I arrived at this site and began reading all the (very) helpful posts on here (I've started from the very first post and am working my way up . . . so it's taking a while).

I need a good sound sync camera, and, much as I WANT(ed) to go w/a Bolex (EBM, for example), I'm learning that they are pretty loud . . . ACLs, on the other hand, are much quieter no?

Okay. With this in mind, here's my question(s).

1) I saw this particular item on Ebay (I know there are risks buying on Ebay, but 1) I'm still looking in case I see a good, good deal, and 2) I'm, of course, on a serious budget):

http://cgi.ebay.com/...I...Q:US:1&rd=1

I asked the seller if it was French or British made, and they said French. It has two days left and so I was wondering if it seems like a good candidate for bidding. It seems good, but, then again, what do I know right?

Also

2) It says it's an ACL . . . Is there a significant difference between the ACL, ACL 1, 2, and 3?

Sorry for the long winded question, but I'm (again, very) excited about my learning more and more regarding film, and I want to continue to educate myself.

Thank you everyone very much in advance,
Javier Calderon




You should ask Guy over at http://cameraspro.com/
He seems very knowledgable on 16 and Super 16.

He has firm reasons as to why the NPR Eclair is superior to th eACL if you want to shoot features etc.

Let us know what he says. I will send him an Eclaire NPR for Super 16 conversion soon.

Alex
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#3 Javier Calderon

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 10:07 PM

Thank you very much for your response, Alex. You know it's funny that you should mention Mr. Bodart, because I was just communicating with him back and forth for a little while the other day. He was actually very, very helpful indeed, and I much appreciated the information he provided. As I was, at the time, mostly interested in Bolexes, we only spoke of that brand - but since you mentioned him as a pretty knowledgable source of other brands as well, I will definitely send him another email.

Here's a concern, however. Knowledgable and helpful as Mr. Bodart was, do you think it would be super wise to consult one camera seller about whether the purchase of another camera from ANOTHER seller would be a good idea or not? I mean I would kind've prefer to simply see what the opinions of the knowledgable people on here are regarding that Ebay item - seeing as nobody on here's going to necessarilly loose any business by recommending the item - whereas Mr. Bodart (no disrespect meant at all toward him) might have a vested interest telling me how NOT a good idea it would be to consider the Ebay item and, instead, recommend me one of his own Eclairs.

Just thoughts/considerations.

Thank you very much again for your reponse, Alex, and I welcome and look forward to anyone/everyone elses.

Javier
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#4 Alex Ardenti

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 10:12 PM

Well. he sells both and shoots most of his stuff on the NPR. Since he has access to a lot of 16mm cameras that's gotta mean something.

I've been researching this for months and seems like no on can give me a good reason not to get an Eclair NPR, except that it's ugly... and it is... but I don't care.

I'll have one in 1-2 weeks so i'll give you feedback if you want it.

good luck
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#5 Javier Calderon

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 10:46 PM

Hmmm . . . So the NPR verses the ACL eh? I began reading on this 16mm forum a few days ago, and, like I said, started at the FIRST thread posted a few years ago . . . so I'm not super far along . . . but I found a few interesting blubrs touting the ACL (particularly the ACL 3) over the NPR - but nothing too definite as to the exact reason why. I'll see if I can find the post and link it to you.

Are the NPRs considerably cheaper than the ACLs? Let me ask you, why are you yourself leaning more toward the NPR? Is there some feature that, for you, makes it more advantageous?

Do tell. :)

Thanks,
Javier

Oh . . . and ps. I've since emailed Guy. Should be hearing back from him soon enough, and will post any pertinent info on here.

Edited by JavierC, 10 May 2006 - 10:47 PM.

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#6 Alex Ardenti

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 10:51 PM

I think I am just trusting Guy Bodart on this.
I wanted to get the ACL simply because they are newer models.

It also seems like several features where done on the NPR but haven't heard anyone using an ACL for features, mostly news.
I need help in this department also.

Maybe Guy can post on this thread and delineate the pros and cons for each?

Alex
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#7 Dan Salzmann

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 06:41 AM

I have a French ACLII with the Kinoptic finder which is the one to get. It is way quieter and more compact than an NPR. I would be very curious as to why the NPR would be a better choice for feature use.
The only feature that the NPR has over the ACL is the adjustable shutter angle (mechanically adjusted while camera is not running). If I needed this feature I would be inclined to rent an Arriflex SR3.
The ACL with 200 ft.mags is close in size to the Aaton Minima for car interiors and other tight situations often encountered when filming a feature.
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#8 Javier Calderon

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 08:52 AM

Okay, Dan. So size/compactness, and sound/quietness (if that's even a word). Fair enough regarding these ACL advantages over the NPR. Can you (or anyone?) let me know what the main differences are between the ACL 3 and, say, the "regular" ACL - i.e. with no number at the end? The Ebay seller seems to be selling an "ACL" - not an ACL 1, 2, or 3 . . . so I was wondering if it is a big mistake for someone to look at an ACL in the same light as the ACL 3 is looked at or to think they are the same (or even similar) models.

Thanks!
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#9 Edward P. Davee

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 11:39 AM

There's no such model as a ACL III. If you are getting an ACL, you will want to try to get an ACL 1.5 (an ACL 1 made in France) or an ACL II. Any ACL made in France will be an ACL 1.5 or an ACL II.

That camera on Ebay does not have the ideal motor with multiple speeds up to 75fps.

Here's your best source for ACL info:


eclair S16

note the link to the ACL mailing list.



Well. he sells both and shoots most of his stuff on the NPR. Since he has access to a lot of 16mm cameras that's gotta mean something.

I've been researching this for months and seems like no on can give me a good reason not to get an Eclair NPR, except that it's ugly... and it is... but I don't care.

I'll have one in 1-2 weeks so i'll give you feedback if you want it.

good luck


Ugly? No way. Personally, i think the NPR is one of the sexiest looking camera's out there.

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#10 Javier Calderon

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 12:33 PM

Thank you much for the info Davee. Thank you also for responding/letting me know about the ACL on Ebay. As I write this, there's a French made ACL 2 that I'm presently looking at on Ebay as well. Also thanks for the link! I'll take a look at it . . . and will of course, be back on here I'm sure asking more questions.

Javier
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#11 andres victorero

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 03:43 PM

The ACL that you have seen in ebay is an ACL 1 and it has a non heavy dutty motor, so if you shoot with a 400 ft. acl mag you will burn the motor. I´ll go to a ACL 1.5 or a ACL 2 that it has a orientable viewfinder, heavy dutty motor 24-25 sync and 75 fps for extreme slow motion, hangrip, etc much better for features than the ebay camera.

I´m going to sell a Arri BL complere package ready to shoot ... if you are interested. :rolleyes:

good luck

Edited by andres victorero, 11 May 2006 - 03:44 PM.

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#12 Javier Calderon

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 05:54 PM

I would imagine that your package is probably a bit out of my price range, but I would definitely be more than willing to at least let you tell me about it/give me a price on it. :) Feel more than free to email me and give me the run down on it as well as send photos if you have any.

Thanks.

Edited by JavierC, 11 May 2006 - 05:55 PM.

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#13 Joe Sexton

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 06:05 PM

I have a ACL 1.5 (french) camera that is super 16mm. I love this little camera. First of all the one on Ebay is not super 16 sixteen so unless you plan to convert the camera to super 16mm yourself (extremely bad idea) your looking at another $1500 - $2500 to have it converted by a qualified tech. The ACL does run quieter then the NPR but accessories like additional mags are more expensive then for the NPR. If you want to learn all about the ACL use the link someone posted above. Personally I would never try to shoot a feature with an ACL, I use mine mainly for shorts or if I want to experiment with film stock, lighting, exe. For what it would cost you to buy, convert, and maintain an ACL you would be money ahead to rent a good Aaton or Arri, as it is a more reliable quieter camera. Also if you are shooting a feature keep in mind the lens option available with the ACL. I assume you don?t want to fork over a lot of cash for a good set of lenses. If you rent a cam you will also be able to rent a good set of primes, as the rental camera will no doubt have a PL mount something your ACL will not. If your planning to use the ACL as a learning tool then I say go for it, I couldn?t be happier with mine but if your in fact shouting a feature length film save your self some headache and rent. Just my two cents.

Joe Sexton
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#14 Javier Calderon

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 07:44 PM

Thanks for the words/response. Yes, I've been slowly but surely going through the ACL link that E.P. Davee posted earlier. Between reading all these post and all the information on that site - as well as the fact that I still have to log in my full day of editing on the feature I'm working on - things are going a little bit slow. But that's okay. All this is a LOT of information, and I need to continue to be patient. Regarding your recommendation to NOT shoot a feature on an ACL, I fear my options are kind of limited here, as my funds are not of the most abundant sort. I guess the fact that various and sundry very low budget independent films were shot on, for example, bolexes, and 1) the bolex is not necessarilly any better than an ACL (many, it seems, would say even NOT as good as . . . ), and 2) a good enough portion of these film makers went on to have very good, working careers . . . well . . . inspires me to not allow myself to be too discouraged by the fact that I may not be able to rent (let alone buy) something like an Arri package.

I consider myself still learning and am certainly on a "long term" (multi plus year) plan in terms of being able to eventually make the kind of living I want as a film maker.

It's feedback like yours and everyone else's that helps give me ideas as to the best direction(s) to take, however.

So thanks again. :)

Oh . . . and needless to say . . . I won't be bidding on that ACL on Ebay.

Edited by JavierC, 12 May 2006 - 07:48 PM.

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