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Keystone A9 Camera


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#1 grantbennett2

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 10:25 AM

Hello All

My first time here, and I hope you can help. I have just purchased a Keystone A9 16mm camera here in the UK.

From looking at previous posts, am I correct in saying that this camera will only run double perf film.

The camera has an Elgeet 25mm f1.9 lens, and takes 30 metre rolls

I'm looking forward to using it with negative stock, has anyone any fav stock choice with this camera, I guess a slow stock is required.

I look forward to your replies. :rolleyes:

Grant Bennett telecine colourist
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#2 Michael Carter

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 12:03 PM

Hi Grant,

Does the camera have a double perf wheel in it, are there two rows of spikes on the central drive wheel? If so, then it only uses 2R film.
However, you have the option of fileing off the top row of teeth. It's pretty easy.
Putting on the wheel again may be a problem as it must be done exactly as it was. Pull on it first. Does it move any, any at all? How high is the center screw on the top. That is where it must be again.

Cheers,

Michael Carter, Pittsburgh USA

Edited by Michael Carter, 18 May 2006 - 12:03 PM.

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#3 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 08:11 PM

I have just purchased a Keystone A9 16mm camera here in the UK.
From looking at previous posts, am I correct in saying that this camera will only run double perf film.


The keystones WERE made in both versions, The ones I have only the A& has the single perf sprocket. JUst llook as as has been said, if it has two rows of teeth, it requires Double perf. If you try to file the teeth off, the ones closest to the cover are the ones to remove...But be careful becauseyou don't want to take off too much and have the film decide ot turn a corner as it passes the sproket.


has anyone any fav stock choice with this camera, I guess a slow stock is required.



The guides on the camera were written in the days of ASA 10 Kodachrome, so they are out of date. ALso The camera probaly does not have 24 Frames marked. If you use asa 50 film at 24 frames a second, you are looking at f16- F11 on a nice day outside. If you use 16 FPS you need even less light! That pplies ot any camerwa not just the Keystones.

One caution, I have a couple of these and they are 70 years old! (Built in the 1930's) so a clean and lube is HIGHLY recomended before use.. I wentout last yaer thinkingt the camera was fine, and a slightly chilly day was enough for the camera to slow down to about 5 Frames a second by the end of the roll. Mine is now on my projects pile to see if I can clean and lube it.

Of the Amature cameras this is the one most like the FIlmo in capability. The whole finder shows the 1 inch lens, and the TEENY TINY red rectangle is for the optional 3 inch (75mm) unit
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#4 grantbennett2

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 08:32 AM

OK thanks

Camera arrived today, it is double perf! and in very nice condition. The seller said it is circa 1950

it has various speeds 24 16 10 64 and 3 intermediate settings + single shot

next step film!

I will shoot at 24 and telecine at 25 fps to pal digibeta

When you say lube, is this a special product ?

with the fact it will run at 24 does this allow any of you to recomend any different stock other than 50asa neg.

many thanks for your time
Grant

Edited by grantbennett2, 19 May 2006 - 08:34 AM.

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#5 Michael Carter

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 12:24 PM

Lube is to lubricate the camera, which requires complete disassembly, clock oil, reassembly then proper adjustment. All without any missing parts or left overs.

A great film to use is Kodak 7363 High Contrast copy film which is negative (and 2R), only, shoot it at 10 ASA and have it processed as reversal. It has slightly less latitude than Kodachrome that way and is fantastic when properly exposed.

Try pulling a film stock and shooting at the lower setting to be close to 10 ASA again.

Do not spray with WD 40, even though it will work, only for a while, then it will need to be really cleaned!

Try the K 40 from Dwayne's. Pull 2 stops and it is 10 ASA. Outside with a 85 it is already 25 ASA. Pull 1 stop to 12.5 ASA.

The spring may want some powered graphite as a lube. The trick is getting it into the case holding the spring inside. . . .
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#6 grantbennett2

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 03:19 PM

The other thing i have noticed is that when the camera is at rest and not turning ovrt the shutter is open, then when you run it the shutter works fine.

is this correct?

thanks
Grant Bennett
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#7 Michael Carter

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 03:27 PM

The other thing i have noticed is that when the camera is at rest and not turning ovrt the shutter is open, then when you run it the shutter works fine.

is this correct?

thanks
Grant Bennett

Check it this way: Put some film in it, old film, if you have the end with all the holes use that, otherwise, use a marker and make hash marks all down the emulsion side. You only need a short piece a couple feet long or less. Put your finger on the claw gear inside, leave the door open. Advance the film slowly. If you see the film move at all then it is not right. The film should not be seen moveing when the shutter is open.
Unless the suttter gear is cleaned and the sproket wheel is set right then the shutter may jump out again. Gunk behind it and the two gears out of proper alignment makes it go out of alignment.
It is pretty easy to fix. Well, not easy but not that hard either.

Edited by Michael Carter, 21 May 2006 - 03:28 PM.

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#8 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 06:38 PM

The other thing i have noticed is that when the camera is at rest and not turning ovrt the shutter is open, then when you run it the shutter works fine.
Grant Bennett

If the spring is wound, and you fire a short burst, the shutter SHOULD stop in the closed position, and the machanism makes a "hack" sound as the stop comes into place. (my make more than one if the stopper slips by and it takes another frame.. - Kinda Klack Klack) Your prevous post caused me to have a look at my Dead Keystone and I happened to do that test today. :>

If the spring winds down, it can leave the shutter open unlike A Filmo which actually will stop with some tension on th esping to ensure the shutter closes all times.

BTW, The Pull down claw on the A3, A7 and A9 is driven by a wheel just behind the gate, so you can see it running if you run the camera with the door open..

Finaly 16mm Film has 40 Frame a foot, so running some leader through for 10 seconds and measuring how far it traveled will give you some idea as to how close the speed is.
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#9 grantbennett2

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 09:46 AM

Well I finaly got around to running some clear leader through the camera, and the shutter is still open when film isnt running.

is this problem fixable? any ideas, the camera internals seem clean and film runs with no problems

many thanks

grant
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#10 grantbennett2

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 07:40 AM

Well I finaly got around to running some clear leader through the camera, and the shutter is still open when film isnt running.

is this problem fixable? any ideas, the camera internals seem clean and film runs with no problems

many thanks

grant



Latest update, I decided, with nothing to loose to have a look in the internal mechanism.

I ran the camera till the spring was fully unwound then removed the back cover followed by the silver plate with the footage counter and shutter release mechanism on it. I then gently wound the spring, as i did it slipped, this made me think that I had broken the mechanism. So I put everything back together and ran the camera.

It works and the shutter is now closed when not running, I'm not sure what happened but I guess something reseated itself.

Anyhow now I can shoot my first roll.
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#11 Michael Carter

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 10:28 AM

Latest update, I decided, with nothing to loose to have a look in the internal mechanism.

I ran the camera till the spring was fully unwound then removed the back cover followed by the silver plate with the footage counter and shutter release mechanism on it. I then gently wound the spring, as i did it slipped, this made me think that I had broken the mechanism. So I put everything back together and ran the camera.

It works and the shutter is now closed when not running, I'm not sure what happened but I guess something reseated itself.

Anyhow now I can shoot my first roll.


The shutter rotates on a shaft. It simply lifts off the shaft. Nothing but the case holds it down. The shutter is a disk with a piece missing and is rivited onto a gear. The gear and disk rotate on a shaft.

You need to take the guts out of the case to get to it. Nothing is removed from the guts except the viewfinder tube. The camera may be run while apart.

The shutter gear has gunk behind it and it jumps the cogs on the big gear it engages to. It must be cleaned out.

Edited by Michael Carter, 01 June 2006 - 10:30 AM.

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