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The perfect s16 camera


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#1 AvegaStudios

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 03:10 AM

hello everybody,
I'm just starting to get into film making, i used all types of cameras, hd, dv whatever....but i'm new to film cameras, i work in music videos, and do commercial advertisement. What's a good camera that won't brake my bank (i'm not looking to spend more the 24 or 25 thousand at the moment) but still deliver good quality pics? everyone says that it's the film that has gotten better and the lenses but i'm scared to buy a 1980 somethin or 90 somethin camera that will look like it's from that era. Is there truth to it? I have heard great things about the A-minima being a great B camera but can it hold up to be my business' gold mine? I know that s16mm far surpasses any of the dinky hdv cameras or dv cameras i've owned but what camera will deliver satisfying results for me, it's gotta be decent speed and have crystal sync sound, and i can always try to rent lenses later. Thanx for any help everyone.
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#2 Stephen Williams

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 03:29 AM

hello everybody,
I'm just starting to get into film making, i used all types of cameras, hd, dv whatever....but i'm new to film cameras, i work in music videos, and do commercial advertisement. What's a good camera that won't brake my bank (i'm not looking to spend more the 24 or 25 thousand at the moment) but still deliver good quality pics? everyone says that it's the film that has gotten better and the lenses but i'm scared to buy a 1980 somethin or 90 somethin camera that will look like it's from that era. Is there truth to it? I have heard great things about the A-minima being a great B camera but can it hold up to be my business' gold mine? I know that s16mm far surpasses any of the dinky hdv cameras or dv cameras i've owned but what camera will deliver satisfying results for me, it's gotta be decent speed and have crystal sync sound, and i can always try to rent lenses later. Thanx for any help everyone.


Hi,

The most important aspect is your lighting skills. A camera is just a box that holds the film. An Aatron XTR, Minima, or Arri SR1/2/3 will all produce fantastic results when fitted with high quality lenses. They are all current rental cameras.

Stephen
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#3 AvegaStudios

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 03:49 AM

Kool stephen but i forgot to say that i need a permanent camera for my clients, my budget is up to about 25 thousnand range. I can always rent lenses later. What do you think? Have you heard things about the A-minima?
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#4 Stephen Williams

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 04:17 AM

Kool stephen but i forgot to say that i need a permanent camera for my clients, my budget is up to about 25 thousnand range. I can always rent lenses later. What do you think? Have you heard things about the A-minima?


Hi,

I have used a Minima. Its a little bit noisy for sync sound at around 27db. Its a great small camera when travelling, small enough to pass as a tourist and not be noticed. I guess a used Minima with mags and good used zoom lens would run to $20,000.
The eyepiece is fixed in one possition, I did not like that. The 200' loads give you about 5 minutes of usable film a roll.

To sum up, its a great 'B' camera, an XTR or SR would make a better production camera. For your price range you would be looking at a 20 year old camera. Remember to budget $1000 a year for repairs and servicing on any camera you own regardless of use.

Stephen
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#5 Chris Burke

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 05:27 AM

I often see overhauled XTR Prods and SR2s with a nice zoom or small prime set in that price range. Check out any number of camera rental houses around the country. They often sell used and well maintain cameras. I am envious of you. If I were in your situation, I would buy a XTR Prod. Check out www.visualproducts.com. I don't really know there rep, but they have many a Super 16 package well with in your budget. I just finished a short where we rented a SR3, great camea, I just prefer the feel of the Aaton. Good luck.
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#6 Nathan Milford

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 07:00 AM

I am currently overhauling one of our XTRpluses from our rental department.

Beautiful camera that will be whisper silent with a rock solid registration once I put it back together.

I'm trying to get them to sell off the XTRpluses to make room for XTRprod2's when they come out.

Shoot me a private message, e-mail or phone call and I can give you a run down on the camera, then introduce you to someone from our sales team.

- Nathan
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#7 pablomadrid

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 02:05 AM

hello everybody,
I'm just starting to get into film making, i used all types of cameras, hd, dv whatever....but i'm new to film cameras, i work in music videos, and do commercial advertisement. What's a good camera that won't brake my bank (i'm not looking to spend more the 24 or 25 thousand at the moment) but still deliver good quality pics? everyone says that it's the film that has gotten better and the lenses but i'm scared to buy a 1980 somethin or 90 somethin camera that will look like it's from that era. Is there truth to it? I have heard great things about the A-minima being a great B camera but can it hold up to be my business' gold mine? I know that s16mm far surpasses any of the dinky hdv cameras or dv cameras i've owned but what camera will deliver satisfying results for me, it's gotta be decent speed and have crystal sync sound, and i can always try to rent lenses later. Thanx for any help everyone.


Hello Nathan,

I think that A-minima is a risky option to invest 25 thousand

there are pros and cons

It´s small like a handycam but fragile

the viewfinder is fixed but it can´t get exposed

the shutter is fixed(172,8 or 180 depends of the version)

there is intervalometer, aaton code to sinc sound, lightmeter...

you need special "cans of film" of 60 meters of Kodak( I don´t know if Fuji has), but can be use in daylight

The video assist is in B/N

and there are two different mounts: Pl Mounts and nikon ( and you can use cheaper nikkor lenses)

well, Ithink that it´s a risky choice with pros and cons

Sorry for my Spanglish and I hope being helpful

Pablo
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#8 Dan Salzmann

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 05:19 AM

I would agree with the XTRprod as a good choice for an all round production camera. Nice for handheld work. You can always rent a Minima if you need one for car interiors or whatever.
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#9 Rik Andino

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 04:26 AM

hello everybody,
I'm just starting to get into film making, i used all types of cameras, hd, dv whatever....but i'm new to film cameras, i work in music videos, and do commercial advertisement. What's a good camera that won't brake my bank (i'm not looking to spend more the 24 or 25 thousand at the moment) but still deliver good quality pics? everyone says that it's the film that has gotten better and the lenses but i'm scared to buy a 1980 somethin or 90 somethin camera that will look like it's from that era. Is there truth to it? I have heard great things about the A-minima being a great B camera but can it hold up to be my business' gold mine? I know that s16mm far surpasses any of the dinky hdv cameras or dv cameras i've owned but what camera will deliver satisfying results for me, it's gotta be decent speed and have crystal sync sound, and i can always try to rent lenses later. Thanx for any help everyone.


I think you need to do a little more research before you buy anything...
First you should talk to a cameraman preferrably the one who will be using the camera...
If you're the one who'll be operating the camera
Maybe you should rent a few cameras first and work with them and then see which one you like...
You don't want to purchase a camera and then realize later on
You'd preferred to work with a different camera than the one you now have.

Also if you don't know much about film you should take some time to learn the basics...
Purchasing a camera should be treated just like a car.
You wouldn't purchase a stick-shift car if you didn't know how to drive it...would you?

Like most people have said the image of S16 is less dependent on the camera
And more dependent on the lens and the film--and of course the lighting and prod. design. :rolleyes:

But a camera does contribute to the ease of operation
And determines which kinds of lenses you can use or not use,
As well as the ability to do certain tricks like playing the the shutter-angle...etc...

So (I suggest) you figure out your needs first and then see which camera fits the bill.


Good Luck
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#10 Robert Skates

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 07:11 AM

Rik's advise is spot on. There are alot of little issues you can only discover by getting you hands on a camera. The view throught the viewfinder, the way the camra balances etc. I would visit a rental house and try a few cameras. Set them up. Load film etc. My students, after training on both Arri16BL and Eclair NPR cameras, choose the Eclair most often. Both cameras come with primes or zoom and nearly every accessory offered. Yet they choose the Eclair over the Arri mostly because the do not like to thread the film though the gate of the Arri. Just one of those little things.

I owned an aaton LTR 7 some year back. It was a great camera. If you are shooting handheld, there are none better. Here is something I discovered one day shooting a performer on a stage. I was in the audience at the foot of the stage. I put the camera on my shoulder and found that the design of the magazine prevents one from easily tilting up at an extreme angle. This was not at all a problem and I just had to support the front of the camera with my arms a bit. I remember thinking then, that it was one of those little things you would not know about until you had the camera in your hands.

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#11 Lav Bodnaruk

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 08:17 AM

Kool stephen but i forgot to say that i need a permanent camera for my clients, my budget is up to about 25 thousnand range. I can always rent lenses later. What do you think? Have you heard things about the A-minima?


Hi, I must admit I too envy you, a 25g budget is a nice one for an ARRI... i'd definitely look towards an ARRI SR2 with all the extras such as tap and pl mount, etc... good luck mate.

oh yeah, i saw this on ebay, although i got no idea who the seller is and have seen others steal his photos to try and scam folks - so maybe if you are in similar area you could go check it out... ?!

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

here, this one is a scam
http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

sorry to hijack the thread like this, i was just giving the example
Again, good luck with your purchase.

Edited by lav, 24 May 2006 - 08:19 AM.

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#12 Tim Carroll

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 08:27 AM

oh yeah, i saw this on ebay, although i got no idea who the seller is and have seen others steal his photos to try and scam folks - so maybe if you are in similar area you could go check it out... ?!

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem


It really sucks that the scammers can cause so much confusion on eBay, as well as rip so many people off. Steve's package is legit. It is a good camera and it has an Axel Broda conversion. And the Jurgens video tap is IMHO the best video tap set up for the SR, and they are no longer available. Be aware though that the camera package does not include the pictured matte box, follow focus, and base plate and rods. He is just selling the camera, mags, video tap, lenses and cases. Still a very nice camera package.

-Tim
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#13 Lav Bodnaruk

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 08:40 AM

Hey Tim, i was sure that it was legit, thats why i posted it here - cause i exchanged an email with him.. but yeah, saw two other auctions claming to be him with his pictures, one from China the other from somewhere else...
I remember selling one of my cameras on ebay when i had my pics re-appear for weeks later in scamer auctions, its a nightmare with ebay like that...

Cheers
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#14 Tim Carroll

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 08:46 AM

Hey Tim, i was sure that it was legit, thats why i posted it here - cause i exchanged an email with him.. but yeah, saw two other auctions claming to be him with his pictures, one from China the other from somewhere else...
I remember selling one of my cameras on ebay when i had my pics re-appear for weeks later in scamer auctions, its a nightmare with ebay like that...

Cheers


Yeah, when I had an SR on eBay, someone in China stole the pics and description. A friend of mine tipped me off and I reported it to eBay and they took it down. Within an hour of the end of my auction I had taken down all the pictures of the camera off the web so no one else could steal them and relist them. There is a nice warm corner of Hell reserved for those folks.

-Tim
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#15 John King

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 08:46 AM

One of you need to go on-line and report the Chinese scammers to ebay. There's already 2 bids on their listing. I would do it but I don't have an ebay account (can't sign up seemingly cause I don't have a credit card?) Anyway nows a time to step up and do the right thing.

Thanks!

J.M. King
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#16 Lav Bodnaruk

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 08:58 AM

One of you need to go on-line and report the Chinese scammers to ebay. There's already 2 bids on their listing. I would do it but I don't have an ebay account (can't sign up seemingly cause I don't have a credit card?) Anyway nows a time to step up and do the right thing.

Thanks!

J.M. King


I had done that the moment i saw it... i also reported it to the original seller, who also told me he reported it to ebay... when this kind of stuff happens it is surprising how slow ebay can act... i mean, i did all that emailing about 16hrs ago... and it still there!!! Go figure...

Cheers

PS. I am sure you can sign up for an ebay account with credit card, and use it to BUY stuff... to sell however you must give credit card details so they have a record of who you are and the rest... (not that that stops these scammers) Surely they have no conscious... although i once read this funny thing where a scammer got scammed BACK!
http://www.p-p-p-powerbook.com/

Edited by lav, 24 May 2006 - 09:00 AM.

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#17 Tim Carroll

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 09:11 AM

One of you need to go on-line and report the Chinese scammers to ebay. There's already 2 bids on their listing. I would do it but I don't have an ebay account (can't sign up seemingly cause I don't have a credit card?) Anyway nows a time to step up and do the right thing.

Thanks!

J.M. King


Before I read your post I had sent a message to the high bidder, informing him that the auction was a scam. When I reported the scammers of my auction, I had to report that myself. No one else could report the scam to eBay except the person who posted the original legitimate auction. Maybe it is different now, but that was only a few months ago. I tried to report a scam last year and eBay would not listen to me because they said it was not my original auction. If someone knows a way to report scams to eBay when it is not your original auction, post it here so we can all help out. I do not know of a way to do that.

-Tim
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#18 Lav Bodnaruk

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 09:27 AM

Hey Tim, i merely went into contacts of ebay and wrote to them but got no reply from them yet... perhaps i will get the same reply as you got, to mind my own business - hence why i had written to the original seller... although i do re-call writing to ebay once about this kind of thing and getting a thank you letter informing me that they will handle it!?! It was real long time ago though...

Oh n i got this email once too:

Dear indifilmz:

Our records indicate that you recently interacted with ticosmic6 through the eBay email system.

Sometimes eBay accounts are used to send email solicitations for transactions outside of eBay, or to send unrelated questions in an attempt to discover your email address. We wanted you to be aware of the potential fraud risk these solicitations pose and encourage you to ignore the email you received from this member. Sales that take place outside of eBay are not eligible for any eBay or PayPal protective services and you run the risk of losing your money or your item if you complete these transactions.

We would encourage you to review the eBay pages related to Fraud Protection at the address provided below for information on steps you can take to ensure that future transactions are completed successfully:

http://pages.ebay.co...w-fraud-ov.html


it went on a bit longer but just boring stuff... obviously no action;

cheers,
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#19 John King

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 12:12 PM

Lav & Tim,

Well anyway you guys tried to do the right thing, the rest is on ebay to act upon it. It is a good idea I think to go ahead and write the bidder and inform him/her that the auction might be a scam. Maybe ebay ought to put money/research into setting up escrow accounts to insure good transactions instead of buying out PayPal to corner all the purchasing venues. O, well.

Again you guys tried to do the right thing and that's what really counts--> my hat's off to you both!

Thanks!

J.M. King
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#20 Tim Carroll

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 12:34 PM

Lav,

I talked to Steve again, in the week his package has been up on eBay, this is the third scam auction that has ripped off his pictures and descriptions. One was in the Netherlands, and I think the rest were in China. He is getting tired of reporting them to eBay.

But again, Steve's auction is the real one.

Arriflex Super16 SRII Movie Camera Package

-Tim
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