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7265 Plus X


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#1 Kevin Desson

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 06:46 PM

Besides none, what kind of latitude can I expect out of this stock, one stop on either side?

and here's a real nube question, do I need to shoot a greycard with B&W stock?

Thanks,

Kevin
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#2 Daniel Madsen

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 11:42 PM

You need to shoot a grey card.
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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 11:55 PM

You need to understand why you're using a grey card in the first place to answer that question.

It doesn't affect the image on the film, it affects how that image may get printed or color-corrected for video if you aren't there to supervise. It provides the colorist/timer with a neutral reference that doesn't need to be creatively interpreted. Without it, if the first shot on your roll is deliberately dark or bright, or hard to interpret as to the look, the timer will give it their best shot and the rest of the footage on that roll will be timed the same way.

In other words, if the first shot on a roll is deliberately dark and orange, for example, the timer will "fix" it to look normal in brightness and neutral in color -- lighter and bluer to compensate. Trouble is then that all your footage will be timed lighter and bluer as well.

Now with b&w, color is not an issue, so there are fewer ways for the timer or colorist to misinterpret the image, but brightness is still an issue.

It's also a frame of reference for you. If the grey scale is timed correctly but then the scene that follows is too dark, then odds are high that you exposed it too dark. Whereas if you had no grey scale and the first shot came up too dark, you may assume that the timer incorrectly made it too dark. OR the timer may even fix it for you and you wouldn't know it was an underexposed shot until it came time to print it.
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#4 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 01:56 PM

Besides none, what kind of latitude can I expect out of this stock, one stop on either side?

and here's a real nube question, do I need to shoot a greycard with B&W stock?

Thanks,

Kevin


By design, reversal camera films designed for direct projection have significantly less latitude than a camera negative film. For optimum quality, try to come within 1/3 stop of normal exposure. You will easily start to see the difference in quality if you miss by over a stop either way. Color negative film has much more latitude, especially for overexposure.

As others have mentioned, shooting a gray card gives your color timer / grader / colorist a reference that is known to be GRAY, and in the middle of the scale. It won't correct poor exposure, but it gives a clue to what a starting balance would be.
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#5 Kevin Desson

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 09:12 AM

thanks John, but let me see if I've got this correct. If I light to my key, lets say 5.6, then anything in the scene not within 1/3 a stop, will be completely under or over exposed.

Also, because of the slow speed of this stock (80asa if I read the Kodak site properly) I was planning to rate it at 125asa and then push it one full stop, do you see any problems with this?

Thanks again

Kevin

Edited by Kevin Desson, 23 May 2006 - 09:14 AM.

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#6 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 09:25 AM

thanks John, but let me see if I've got this correct. If I light to my key, lets say 5.6, then anything in the scene not within 1/3 a stop, will be completely under or over exposed.

Also, because of the slow speed of this stock (80asa if I read the Kodak site properly) I was planning to rate it at 125asa and then push it one full stop, do you see any problems with this?

Thanks again

Kevin


You normally base your exposure on your main subject, then control your lighting on the other areas of the scene so they don't "burn out" with overexposure, or lack shadow detail you want your audience to see.

With a reversal film, you should be okay with your plan of 2/3 stop underexposure and then push-1 processing. But don't expect the same quality you would get with normal exposure and processing, especially with regard to shadow detail and graininess. If you need the speed, why not use 7266 with normal exposure and processing?
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#7 Kevin Desson

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 09:38 AM

Hey John, thanks so much for your quick response. The stock was chosen/purchased before I was brough on to the project. With regards to the effects of the Push, I am purposely trying to add more grain to the image, but thanks for the warning.
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#8 Sam Wells

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 04:40 PM

thanks John, but let me see if I've got this correct. If I light to my key, lets say 5.6, then anything in the scene not within 1/3 a stop, will be completely under or over exposed.
Kevin


Not that bad, you couldn't shoot anything !

You've got maybe 2 2/3 under, 2 1/3 over to work with.

-Sam (trying out Black Mac Book in a store & testing it for 'latitude' -- like the black don't like the Keys...)
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#9 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 09:11 PM

Not that bad, you couldn't shoot anything !

You've got maybe 2 2/3 under, 2 1/3 over to work with.

-Sam )


That larger range is for what range of brightness in the scene will be captured on the more linear part of the film's characteristic, not for the latitude of exposing your main subject, which is much tighter on a reversal film.
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#10 Sam Wells

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Posted 25 May 2006 - 12:34 AM

Right, but I responded to what he wrote which implied a 2/3 stop range of brightness; I don't know if that's what he meant.

-Sam

(didn't buy a Mac Book, no hurry yet)
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#11 Chris Shirley

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Posted 10 June 2006 - 08:38 AM

I shot a roll of 7265 Plus X Reversal with exterior footage (in overcast conditions) 1/2 stop underexposed and interior shots 2/3 stop underexposed. The exterior footage is by far the most critical and I would like to process the film to get the best possible exterior footage results. What instructions would you recommend I give the lab (e.g., push 1/2 stop, push 2/3 stop, push 1 stop) to get the best results? How can I expect my interior footage to turn out given your suggetions? I'm a student so please forgive the ignorance of this question. Thanks for any guidance!
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#12 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 10 June 2006 - 11:24 AM

Most labs push or pull in one-stop increments, and only to entire rolls at a time.

Since reversal favors some underexposure and you underexposed by a 1/2 stop, then I would just process normal and let the footage be a little underexposed, rather than push one stop and let it be a little overexposed.

In the future, you should shoot a test to determine the best way to expose and process footage, not expose it in some special way and then figure out how to process it. And if you can't shoot tests, you should expose and process conventionally.

Reversal has such limited latitude that it is extremely scene dependent as to the best way to expose it, i.e. does the subject have a lot of bright highlights or mostly shadows? Simple overall under or overexposing for the best effect can mean that certain shots will still look misexposed if you don't compensate for their content. For example, I did a short film in b&w reversal in a kitchen and the master was exposed correctly but when I shot an insert of a bowl of cereal in milk (lots of whites) it looked overexposed even though it was exposed correctly. So to make that look correct, I should have slightly underexposed to compensate (or exposed using spot meter readings and placed the object in the Zone I wanted.)
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