Jump to content


Photo

emulsion side out


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 c_conditt

c_conditt

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts
  • Student

Posted 31 May 2006 - 01:28 PM

What happens when you take a filmroll with the emulsion side out to the lab?

Is that a problem? Does somebody have experience with that?
  • 0

#2 Laurent Andrieux

Laurent Andrieux
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1527 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • France

Posted 31 May 2006 - 02:08 PM

No that is not a problem. Panavision cameras roll exposed film side out.

But may be ther is another problem underneath your question ? What camera did you work with ? It sounds like you are worried that emulsion is side out...
  • 0

#3 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 31 May 2006 - 02:13 PM

What happens when you take a filmroll with the emulsion side out to the lab?

Is that a problem? Does somebody have experience with that?


Hi,

If you shoot with a Mitchell, and up till about 1970 over 70% of all Hollywood films were shot on Mitchells then emulsion out was standard. Oxberry cameras in most lab optical departments also wind emulsion out.

The idea is that its very easy to confirm if a roll of film or short end has been exposed .

Stephen


But may be ther is another problem underneath your question ? What camera did you work with ? It sounds like you are worried that emulsion is side out...


Laurent,

You answered while I was writing!

Shooting through the base, with Kodak you will be about 5 stops under and Fuji maybe 7 stops under, I tested that last year!

Stephen

Edited by Stephen Williams, 31 May 2006 - 02:14 PM.

  • 0

#4 c_conditt

c_conditt

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts
  • Student

Posted 31 May 2006 - 02:17 PM

Hi,

If you shoot with a Mitchell, and up till about 1970 over 70% of all Hollywood films were shot on Mitchells then emulsion out was standard. Oxberry cameras in most lab optical departments also wind emulsion out.

The idea is that its very easy to confirm if a roll of film or short end has been exposed .

Stephen


thanks a lot for your help!

in fact i exposed the images with a 35mm photo camera for color and contrast tests - i know that i exposed the right side but when winding it back again on the core in the changing back i did it the wrong way. The lab doesnt now that - so i am afraid that when they are trying to wash away the rem-jet they wash off my pictures instead!
  • 0

#5 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 31 May 2006 - 02:24 PM

thanks a lot for your help!

in fact i exposed the images with a 35mm photo camera for color and contrast tests - i know that i exposed the right side but when winding it back again on the core in the changing back i did it the wrong way. The lab doesnt now that - so i am afraid that when they are trying to wash away the rem-jet they wash off my pictures instead!


Hi,

I shoot both emulsion in and out on the same shoot without ever being any problem whatsoever. I own cameras that wind both ways, I don't give it a second thought.

Stephen
  • 0

#6 Laurent Andrieux

Laurent Andrieux
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1527 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • France

Posted 31 May 2006 - 02:30 PM

Laurent,

You answered while I was writing!


That often happens to me too :D Usually I'm the late one since I need more time to write in english I guess, got you this time ! :lol:

Shooting through the base, with Kodak you will be about 5 stops under and Fuji maybe 7 stops under, I tested that last year!


Never tried that but I would guess image is not sharp and poor contrast as well, am I right ?
  • 0

#7 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 31 May 2006 - 02:37 PM

That often happens to me too :D Usually I'm the late one since I need more time to write in english I guess, got you this time ! :lol:
Never tried that but I would guess image is not sharp and poor contrast as well, am I right ?


Take a look! Fuji F250T 8 stops overeposed 35mm! That is with 10 seconds of grading in telecine

http://www.stephenw.com/ttb8.tiff

Using the grey card grading of my shoot on the same stock 7 stops overeposed

http://www.stephenw.com/ttb7.tiff

The blue fogging in the black is because of a design flaw in the Ultracam camera design ! Light leaks through the registration and pulldown perfs into the camera. Black tape fixes the problem. Another Ultracam owner got slight flickering but not on every job. Turned out the heavier fuji ramjet prevented the problem showing up.

Stephen
  • 0

#8 Dominik Muench

Dominik Muench
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 443 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Brisbane

Posted 31 May 2006 - 02:37 PM

Shooting through the base, with Kodak you will be about 5 stops under and Fuji maybe 7 stops under, I tested that last year!

Stephen




Ben Knot shot "Salems Lot" through the base. but ive never seen the series :/
  • 0

#9 Tim Terner

Tim Terner
  • Sustaining Members
  • 340 posts
  • Producer
  • Prague, CZ

Posted 31 May 2006 - 02:49 PM

Take a look! Fuji F250T 8 stops overeposed 35mm!

http://www.stephenw.com/ttb8.tiff

Stephen


8 stops overeposed, and then tried to correct in this print ?
  • 0

#10 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 31 May 2006 - 02:58 PM

8 stops overeposed, and then tried to correct in this print ?


Hi,

No, the film is put in the camera the wrong way, so the black ramjet faces the lens. The black ramjet absorbs about 7 or 8 stops so the film is correctly exposed.

Stephen
  • 0

#11 Laurent Andrieux

Laurent Andrieux
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1527 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • France

Posted 31 May 2006 - 03:33 PM

the film is correctly exposed


:lol:

Excellent pictures, very informative ! I am very astonished how sharp the image is ! Very interesting looks BTW !
  • 0

#12 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 01 June 2006 - 01:23 AM

:lol:

Excellent pictures, very informative ! I am very astonished how sharp the image is ! Very interesting looks BTW !


Laurent,

Lens 24mm Zeiss Superspeed @ 2 for the +8 and 2.8 for the + 7 keylight was the Sun!

Stephen
  • 0

#13 Laurent Andrieux

Laurent Andrieux
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1527 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • France

Posted 01 June 2006 - 03:23 AM

(The smiley was linked to your statment that the film was "correctly exposed".. that makes me laugh !)

I was serious commenting your informations.

I's a pity somehow it is then so less sensitive. Puts you back manyyears ago. Should shoot a western cowboy movie in the desert with it !
  • 0

#14 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 01 June 2006 - 04:40 AM

(The smiley was linked to your statment that the film was "correctly exposed".. that makes me laugh !)

I was serious commenting your informations.

I's a pity somehow it is then so less sensitive. Puts you back manyyears ago. Should shoot a western cowboy movie in the desert with it !


Laurent,

Shoot with kodak, only 5 stops extra needed! LOL

Stephen
  • 0

#15 Laurent Andrieux

Laurent Andrieux
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1527 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • France

Posted 01 June 2006 - 05:05 AM

Yep but you only get 16 ASA with 5218 then...

It's worth a try anyway...

And what about Flange focal distance and focus BTW ? I guess the lens is going in the minus a lot, doesn't it ?

Did you set the FF differently or just correct on the lenses ?
  • 0

#16 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 01 June 2006 - 06:50 AM

Yep but you only get 16 ASA with 5218 then...

It's worth a try anyway...

And what about Flange focal distance and focus BTW ? I guess the lens is going in the minus a lot, doesn't it ?

Did you set the FF differently or just correct on the lenses ?


Hi,

I focused by eye. I don't have a BNCR depth gauge for my Ultracam so I can't be possitive that its spot on. However film tests indicate its OK! It's normal to have the focus plane minus 20 microns. I think a 24mm @ T2 could have a tolerance of maybe a further 20 microns, so it seems close enough.

When I tested with Kodak on the Mitchel I also had no problems. I was using a Cooke 20-100 with a T3.1 F2.8 wide open. Sometimes we worry to much!

Stephen
  • 0

#17 Laurent Andrieux

Laurent Andrieux
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1527 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • France

Posted 01 June 2006 - 06:53 AM

A wide lens could give some really bad results, I guess.

Say, about how many millimeters offset did you get on the lens (giving the 24 mm for instance) If you remind ?
  • 0

#18 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 01 June 2006 - 07:18 AM

A wide lens could give some really bad results, I guess.

Say, about how many millimeters offset did you get on the lens (giving the 24 mm for instance) I you remind ?


Laurent,

Measurement from camera to subject was about 8 feet from memory. The lens markings match to ground glass quite well but are not spaced very far apart.

I am sure with an 8mm lens depth would be an issue. A fully black pressure plate would be useful as well!

Stephen
  • 0

#19 John Holland

John Holland
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2250 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London England

Posted 01 June 2006 - 10:18 AM

Hi,

I focused by eye. I don't have a BNCR depth gauge for my Ultracam so I can't be possitive that its spot on. However film tests indicate its OK! It's normal to have the focus plane minus 20 microns. I think a 24mm @ T2 could have a tolerance of maybe a further 20 microns, so it seems close enough.

When I tested with Kodak on the Mitchel I also had no problems. I was using a Cooke 20-100 with a T3.1 F2.8 wide open. Sometimes we worry to much!

Stephen

Hi Stephen ,would love to know more about your Ultracam , never seen one in the flesh ! did you get it from Leonetti ? , tell me more please . john .
  • 0

#20 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 01 June 2006 - 12:25 PM

Hi Stephen ,would love to know more about your Ultracam , never seen one in the flesh ! did you get it from Leonetti ? , tell me more please . john .


John,

15 cameras were made by Wildcam/Leonetti from about 1979. Leonetti made them as a rental only system to compete with Panavision. They were released at the same exibition in London as the Aaton III and Moviecam.

It's based an a Mitchell style movement, fairly silent (claimed 20db but I think a bit more if film is threaded!). BNCR lens mount with Zeiss 'Ultratron' lenses. Basically their own mechanics and SuperSpeed glass with 18 iris blades. 24mm,35mm,50mm & 85mm are T1.4, 18mm is T1.9, 28mm & 135mm are T1.8. Has built in anamorphic eyepiece but Video assists are poop, based on security cameras. OK to hand hold at 35 pounds with 400' film, 50mm lens and built in follow focus.

I don't know when Leonetti sold the fleet but I bought my first package from Edgewood Studios 3 years ago. It had been hanging on Ebay for 6 months. Last August Roderick E Stevens (CML) was desperate to sell his, so I picked up a second body and few more lenses. I had hoped to use them on a feature but that is on hold now, I have shot a couple of commercials and lots of tests with them.

I know that David M got through 3 bodies on his first feature and was not happy with the standard of maintanance of the cameras from Leonetti.

Stephen
  • 0


The Slider

Tai Audio

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Glidecam

Metropolis Post

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Visual Products

FJS International, LLC

Opal

Ritter Battery

Rig Wheels Passport

Paralinx LLC

Wooden Camera

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Aerial Filmworks

Technodolly

Abel Cine

CineTape

Willys Widgets

CineLab

rebotnix Technologies

Technodolly

Visual Products

CineLab

Tai Audio

rebotnix Technologies

Aerial Filmworks

Willys Widgets

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Wooden Camera

Opal

Metropolis Post

CineTape

Paralinx LLC

FJS International, LLC

Ritter Battery

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Rig Wheels Passport

Abel Cine

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

The Slider

Glidecam