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Konvas film gates


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#1 Nitay Artenstein

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 01:26 PM

Hi everyone,

I plan on shooting a short movie with a Konvas 2M. I am completely new to the field of cinematography, and will rely mostly on my knowledge as a stills photographer to pull me through. One question I find to be particularly thorny is that of the film gates on the Konvas. The package I intend to buy comes with an anamorphic film gate. Here are my questions:

1. What is the aspect ratio of an anamorphic film gate? From what I understand it is equivalent to the 'academy frame'. If so, can I shoot using this film gate and a normal spherical lens, and afterwards project the movie on an aspect ratio of 1.37:1?

2. How difficult is it to find a different film gate afterwards for the Konvas, such a 1.85:1 or a 1.66:1? How complex is the operation of changing the film gate on the camera?

3. When using any of the film gates I mentioned, will it be necessary in post-production to crop a part of the image to make space for the soundtrack?

I sincerely appreciate any help you can offer to a true amateur such as myself.
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#2 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 04:29 PM

Hi everyone,

1. What is the aspect ratio of an anamorphic film gate? From what I understand it is equivalent to the 'academy frame'. If so, can I shoot using this film gate and a normal spherical lens, and afterwards project the movie on an aspect ratio of 1.37:1?

2. How difficult is it to find a different film gate afterwards for the Konvas, such a 1.85:1 or a 1.66:1? How complex is the operation of changing the film gate on the camera?

3. When using any of the film gates I mentioned, will it be necessary in post-production to crop a part of the image to make space for the soundtrack?

I sincerely appreciate any help you can offer to a true amateur such as myself.


The anamoprhic ( wide screen ) film gate have ratio 2.35:1 ( with 2x enlargement ).
The original Konvas film gate marked " A" ( anamorphic )have size : 22.1 x 18.6 mm. This is film gate have ratio 1.18:1. This film gate have place for optical soud track from side.

The original Konvas film gate marked " N" ( normal ) have size of 22.1 x 16 mm.
This is film gate have ratio 1.38:1. This is film gate have place for optical sound track.

The 1.85:1 and 1.66:1 film gates you can ask from Rafael.

But, you can cut any size ( ratio ) of image at telecine from " normal " and " anamorphic " film gate.
Any case, you need discuss this question with operator of telecine.

The matter is that, the many operators of telecine to use 1.85:1 or Silent film gate 1.33:1 without sound track.
That's why, your image can have black stripe from side.
If you will need cut picture from anamorphic size on 1.85: 1 or 1.66 :1 you need create of correct image on ground glass of camera with idea of next cut.

Send me letter on olex@a-teleport.com, i can send you a some images with my comments.
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#3 Freya Black

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 05:09 PM

The anamoprhic ( wide screen ) film gate have ratio 2.35:1 ( with 2x enlargement ).


What Olex means is the aspect ratio of the projected image, when unsqueezed, is 2:35:1 when using the Konvas Anamorphic gate.

The original Konvas film gate marked " A" ( anamorphic )have size : 22.1 x 18.6 mm. This is film gate have ratio 1.18:1. This film gate have place for optical soud track from side.


So the aspect ratio for the physical gate and hence image on negative is not as wide as academy. This is because it uses the full height of the 35mm film frame, making full use of all those grains. At least those not in the soundtrack area anyway ;)

The original Konvas film gate marked " N" ( normal ) have size of 22.1 x 16 mm.
This is film gate have ratio 1.38:1. This is film gate have place for optical sound track.


This Normal gate is academy, so yes you would need to change gates to shoot academy.
Olex notes they have space for the soundtrack. He mentions this because formats such as Super35 do not have space for the soundtrack, but this makes it much more expensive to make prints from S35 as it can't be contact printed.

The 1.85:1 and 1.66:1 film gates you can ask from Rafael.


These are the standard widescreen aspect ratios. Tends to be considered as 1.85:1 for U.S. and 1.66:1 for Europe. Tho in practice it may not really be like that.

But, you can cut any size ( ratio ) of image at telecine from " normal " and " anamorphic " film gate.
Any case, you need discuss this question with operator of telecine.


The telecine operator can zoom in on the area for 1.185:1 etc. Also it's generally true that widescreen films are just masked in the projector. Of course you run the risk that the projectionist might show the wrong bit of your film if it isn't masked out on the negative too.

The matter is that, the many operators of telecine to use 1.85:1 or Silent film gate 1.33:1 without sound track.
That's why, your image can have black stripe from side.


That would be a naughty telecine operator with the telecine set up for Super35 and not the correct aspect ratio. ;)

If you will need cut picture from anamorphic size on 1.85: 1 or 1.66 :1 you need create of correct image on ground glass of camera with idea of next cut.


You would need to update your viewfnder to show you where the framelines are for the masked aspect ratios (1.85:1 etc).

If the Konvas comes with an anamorphic gate then maybe it comes with an anamorphic lens too?

love

Freya

Edited by Freya, 01 June 2006 - 05:10 PM.

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#4 Thomas Worth

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 10:26 AM

So the aspect ratio for the physical gate and hence image on negative is not as wide as academy. This is because it uses the full height of the 35mm film frame, making full use of all those grains. At least those not in the soundtrack area anyway

This isn't true. Both academy and anamorphic gates are 22mm wide. The anamorphic gate is about 2.6mm taller than academy. Think of the anamorphic gate as full aperture, minus the soundtrack area.

The fact is it doesn't matter whether you shoot with an anamorphic, academy, or 1.66:1 gate as long as your ground glass is marked for 1.85. In fact, it may be BETTER to shoot with an anamorphic gate, even if the film isn't anamorphic, just for the increased exposure area. This can come in handy in telecine for re-framing the image.

With the aforementioned Konvas gates, the soundtrack is left untouched. The only issue you may have is with the Super 35 gate (marked "S"). This extends the picture into the soundtrack area, which screws you if you intend to make a flat (1.85:1) print with sound.

The telecine operator can zoom in on the area for 1.185:1 etc. Also it's generally true that widescreen films are just masked in the projector. Of course you run the risk that the projectionist might show the wrong bit of your film if it isn't masked out on the negative too.

Most films aren't masked on the print. As long as it's masked for 1.85:1, I wouldn't worry about it.
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#5 Freya Black

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 02:54 PM

This isn't true. Both academy and anamorphic gates are 22mm wide. The anamorphic gate is about 2.6mm taller than academy. Think of the anamorphic gate as full aperture, minus the soundtrack area.


Yes I phrased that very badly but if you read what I was saying it is the same thing! :) I was trying to say that the aspect ratio of the gate isn't as wide, not that the width of the gate isn't as wide. Also that the aspect ratio recorded on film is also less wide than even academy but of course when it is unsqueezed in the projector it is very wide, but it was a very confusing way of describing things sorry!

Hopefully your description will make what I meant clearer! :)

love

Freya
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