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What is a good combination of gels for sunrise?


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#1 Allyn Laing

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 03:28 AM

Hi there,

I'm after an early morning winter sun look, leaning towards a strong orange

does anyone have any suggestions for filters? I thought the 776 nectarine lee gel might be a good one?

thanking you

Allyn
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#2 Michael Nash

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 04:10 AM

Nectarine is pretty strong and very red. Usually sunrise and sunset light is more like some density of CTO or CTS. I'd try 1/4 or 1/2 CTO or CTS. Full is probably too strong to look realistic.
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#3 Remi Adefarasin

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 08:07 AM

I use a 1/4 minus green to add a touch of magenta to the 1/2 to full CTO I use.
If you look at a winter sunrise it is a shade pink.

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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 10:46 AM

Usually I used Full CTO or CTS, filled with coolish light for that two-toned look. Sort of depends on what percentage of the frame is covered by the sunset light and whether I am shooting in back, side, or front light. Full Orange backlight is less obnoxious than when it is a frontal light.

I couple of times I've used Double Full CTO or CTS because occasionally a sunset (more than a sunrise) really does get that super orange, but usually at that point, it's also not a strong light, starting to balance in level with the cool twilight ambience, not a strong key.

I've wanted to try adding Magenta like Remi suggests, ever since reading about how Jack Cardiff used Magenta for a sunrise in "Black Narcissus" with Cyan fill light.
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#5 Tim O'Connor

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 12:33 PM

Just to be clear,

You're all talking about gelling tungsten, right?

Thanks.
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 12:47 PM

Just to be clear,

You're all talking about gelling tungsten, right?

Thanks.


Not necessarily. In terms of gelling, we're talking about starting out with a "white" light -- tungsten in a tungsten-balanced situation, like on a stage using tungsten stock. But it could mean using HMI's on daylight-balanced stock or tungsten stock with the 85B filter.

So one could, in that situation, use an ungelled tungsten lamp instead of an HMI with Full CTO for an orange sunset effect.
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#7 Michael Nash

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 04:25 PM

I couple of times I've used Double Full CTO or CTS because occasionally a sunset (more than a sunrise) really does get that super orange, but usually at that point, it's also not a strong light, starting to balance in level with the cool twilight ambience, not a strong key.


You're right that the color can become very intense when the sun is just on the horizon. Just a little higher in the sky (later morning/earlier afternoon) the warm color drops quickly.

That's why I suggested 1/4 or 1/2 density for a sort of "breakfast table" look; the sun is already up a bit. But the actual point of sunrise or sunset (at the horizon) can indeed become very saturated. So it depends on what time of day you're trying to show, and of course the mood you want to create.

I've never really been able to get a very saturated sunset to look convincing, but that's me! I think maybe you have to have enough contrast ratio, to really "sell" it as sunlight and not just a gelled light. I'm sure Mr. Adefarasin and Mr. Mullen have had much better success with it than I have!
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#8 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 05:25 PM

It's actually one of those situations where the real effect can look "fake" -- if you actually filmed it, people would think it was faked with lighting. It's like this time I was in the desert under a full moon and it felt like a BAD day-for-night effect!

I've been sitting in some room or maybe a cafe and had the last rays of sunset come into the room and have noticed that it was an insanely intense reddish color, completely unreal. But it is also fleeting, which is perhaps another reason not to play a long scene in that light.

We've all shot scenes indoors and outdoors in failing light and notice in the background some super orange pattern of light hitting the wall or something as the sun goes away.

It actually tends to not be a high contrast moment since the light is dimming too, so there is an overall soft blue ambience from the sky becoming more powerful, which also mixes with the deep orange so the overall effect in the wider shots is not very orangey.

Also, exposure can make a colored light seem more or less saturated. I've had uncorrected tungsten light come into a daytime room from a Dino or something and not have it look too orangey because it's bright and overexposed.
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