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Zeiss superspeeds T1.4. Advice please


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#1 Sam Martin

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 12:12 PM

Hi there:

I am seriously considering purchasing a set of 5x Zeiss 35mm superspeeds T1.4 lenses plus a 135mm. I would like to know what other people have to say about these lenses. How well they compare to the T1.3?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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#2 Stephen Williams

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 01:49 PM

Hi there:

I am seriously considering purchasing a set of 5x Zeiss 35mm superspeeds T1.4 lenses plus a 135mm. I would like to know what other people have to say about these lenses. How well they compare to the T1.3?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

Thanks


Hi,

The downside is the triangle iris shape. I have the same glass with 16 iris blades, they are sweet when stopped down at least to T2.5

Stephen
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#3 Sam Martin

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 05:27 PM

Hi,

The downside is the triangle iris shape. I have the same glass with 16 iris blades, they are sweet when stopped down at least to T2.5

Stephen



We are planning to use them with some of the 35mm lens adaptors we have in our shop, the Movietube, so whatever lenses we get they have to be fast. So far we have been on video land and this is the first time we are blowing serious money on film lenses. We are asking around some of the DP's we know, but the more info we can get the better. We are a little afraid we might end up with a set of lenses that are not quite as good as what we could get by spending a little bit more. Should we look in a different direction? The Zeiss T1.3 is what we've been using so far (cross hiring) and everybody loves them. We need to get our lenses because we are bleeding money by cross hiring, so the T1.4 seem to be a good option and available for a quick buy.... Are we making a huge mistake?

Thanks
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#4 Michael Nash

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 06:29 PM

It sounds like you've outlined all your paramaters and have answered your own question already.

"they have to be fast..."

"everybody loves them..."

"we are bleeding money by cross hiring, so the T1.4 seem to be a good option and available for a quick buy..."


Then you say "We are a little afraid we might end up with a set of lenses that are not quite as good as what we could get by spending a little bit more..."

So which is it? You need to stop the hemmoraging, or are willing to suffer for an investment?

FWIW, the crisp focus falloff of Zeiss is probably what you're after when using an adapter.
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#5 Sam Martin

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 09:19 PM

Hi Michael:

What it is is that they are a type of lenses we have never used, so we would like to find out whether this would be a good purchase or we should wait to come across a set of T1.3. We believe the set is good but would like to hear what people who have used them have to say. We don't want to end up with a load of glass that isn't good enough....

Cheers
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#6 Stephen Williams

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 01:55 AM

Hi Michael:

What it is is that they are a type of lenses we have never used, so we would like to find out whether this would be a good purchase or we should wait to come across a set of T1.3. We believe the set is good but would like to hear what people who have used them have to say. We don't want to end up with a load of glass that isn't good enough....

Cheers



Hi,

FWIW the later lenses will cost roughly 50% more than the MK1's. Optically they are almost identical, I think the front element is bigger and the Iris has more blades.

How much are the lenses?

Stephen
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#7 Sam Martin

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 02:49 AM

Hi,

FWIW the later lenses will cost roughly 50% more than the MK1's. Optically they are almost identical, I think the front element is bigger and the Iris has more blades.

How much are the lenses?

Stephen


Hi Stephen:


A set of second hand Zeiss T1.4 18,25,35,50,85mm is $14900 with 6 months warranty & labor + a 7 day money back guarantee (we're based in the UK so I'm not sure how much use we can do of the 7 day but at least it's there). They will throw in a 135mm (I believe T2.1) for $3000. What do you think? I beleive a set of T1.3 would be around $4000/$5000 more. Is the difference between these two type of lenses so noticiable? Should we go for them? Wait until we come across better lenses?

Cheers zeissWEB.jpg

Edited by pirata, 07 June 2006 - 02:54 AM.

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#8 Stephen Williams

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 03:41 AM

Hi Stephen:
A set of second hand Zeiss T1.4 18,25,35,50,85mm is $14900 with 6 months warranty & labor + a 7 day money back guarantee (we're based in the UK so I'm not sure how much use we can do of the 7 day but at least it's there). They will throw in a 135mm (I believe T2.1) for $3000. What do you think? I beleive a set of T1.3 would be around $4000/$5000 more. Is the difference between these two type of lenses so noticiable? Should we go for them? Wait until we come across better lenses?

Cheers zeissWEB.jpg


Hi,

Way overpriced IMHO, they are in Arri Std mount. They would sell on Ebay for maybe $6000 or less, in PL mount (not with adapters) $10,000 on a VERY good day. $3000 per lens is rule of thumb from a Dealer, but expect less than $2000 when you sell them!

I am sure you will find a very good deal on lenses with BNCR mount. I think P+S have a BNCR mount option. Van Diemen in the UK was selling a large Cannon Set in BNCR a couple of weeks ago, I was offered a single lens for £700 which I thought was expensive!

Stephen
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#9 Max Jacoby

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 03:44 AM

35mm PL mount lenses are the part of the whole camera system that keeps it value the longest. Digital cameras (Dalsa, D-20, etc...) are using 35mm PL mount lenses as well, so you should be future proof. That means that you could afford to spent some more money on lenses, knowing that you can use them for a long time.

Although the Zeiss Superspeeds are not the worlds most recent lenses, they are still very good lenses that have already and will continue to give very good pictures.

As for the difference between Mark 1 and Mark 2/3, if I were you I'd go to a nearby rental house and just compare the two lenses. Put them on a projector, put them on your camera and Movietube and look at the picture on a montior. This should help you make up your mind
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#10 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 04:05 AM

Hi Stephen

Check information about russian modern lenses Elite Optic.
The many film makers use this lenses and have very good opinion about quality.
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#11 Sam Martin

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 06:28 AM

Hi Stephen

Check information about russian modern lenses Elite Optic.
The many film makers use this lenses and have very good opinion about quality.



The whole point of going PL mount instead of BNCR is that we are purchasing s few large HD cameras later in the year, may be even a red camera as well, and having the PL lenses means we would be able to use the lenses with those cameras as well. It is a bit of a future proof decision really.

I am fully aware that going through a reseller will up the prices a bit, but it is difficult to find second hand PL mount lenses from individuals, and we can't really wait for months to put a kit together....

I seem to be getting a lot of feedback on the price, but how about the quality of the lenses? Are they worth it?

Cheers
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#12 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 07:46 AM

Bazza's Bazaar (www.bblist.co.uk) currently have a set of Mk1 primes (9.5, 12, 16, 25) for sale for £2000 + vat.

BBlist is worth a look before you buy
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#13 Stephen Williams

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 09:18 AM

The whole point of going PL mount instead
Cheers


Hi,

The lenses are NOT PL mount, they don't have focus gears. To bring them into the 21st centuary will be expensive. Optically I am sure they are good.

Stephen
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#14 Sam Martin

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 04:11 PM

Hi,

The lenses are NOT PL mount, they don't have focus gears. To bring them into the 21st centuary will be expensive. Optically I am sure they are good.

Stephen



Actually Stephen, I've been on the phone with the supplier and the $14900 includes the lenses with PL mount and modified with focus gears. I think this is not such a bad deal after all.

What a day today! Our little wonderful assistant might have found a set of of T1.3 that need to be purchased quickly so we might actually buy both sets. After all we will be constantly using them. I can only imagine the massive amounts we are going to save just by having our own sets....

The main use of these lenses for now will be on the several 35mm adaptors we have for hire and we've been told that as there is so much glass involved with these adaptors that by the time the image is recorded on camera you wouldn't really appreciate any differences from 1.4s to 1.3. Only when dealing with film cameras you might notice the difference....

I guess there is a strong point there....
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#15 Stephen Williams

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 12:41 AM

Actually Stephen, I've been on the phone with the supplier and the $14900 includes the lenses with PL mount and modified with focus gears. I think this is not such a bad deal after all.

What a day today! Our little wonderful assistant might have found a set of of T1.3 that need to be purchased quickly so we might actually buy both sets. After all we will be constantly using them. I can only imagine the massive amounts we are going to save just by having our own sets....

The main use of these lenses for now will be on the several 35mm adaptors we have for hire and we've been told that as there is so much glass involved with these adaptors that by the time the image is recorded on camera you wouldn't really appreciate any differences from 1.4s to 1.3. Only when dealing with film cameras you might notice the difference....

I guess there is a strong point there....


Hi,

The Bokah is very different on out of focus highlights.
When stopped down past 5.6 the MK1's will go soft.

Stephen
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#16 Mike Williamson

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 03:44 AM

After shooting some tests with a set of T1.4 Superspeeds for 16mm, I was very unhappy with the bokeh in a few shots. In particular, we shot a close-up with a tree in the background out of focus, and the triangular iris made the pattern of the leaves extremely distracting. The effect was something like strange dancing triangles all over the frame, very weird. Some of the shots were unremarkable and you wouldn't notice anything out of the ordinary, but when you did, it was BAD.

Conversely, I shot a feature with a set of 35mm T1.3 Superspeeds (probably Mk3's?), and they were great lenses, even wide open I felt like they performed well, and the T1.3 saved me on a few occasions.

Not sure if that's helpful, but it would be worth looking at these lenses before you purchase them. Besides being maybe slightly softer and more prone to flaring, the biggest difference has to be the iris design, so that's something you should look at before sinking the money into them. Good luck!
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#17 Stephen Williams

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 08:33 AM

After shooting some tests with a set of T1.4 Superspeeds for 16mm, I was very unhappy with the bokeh in a few shots. In particular, we shot a close-up with a tree in the background out of focus, and the triangular iris made the pattern of the leaves extremely distracting.


Hi,

Check out Midnight Express.

Stephen
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#18 Mitch Gross

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 10:50 PM

I find a big difference between the optical performance of a set of Mark 1 T 1.4 superspeeds and the T1.3 sets. Resolving power, flaring, color depth, chromatic abberation, and a huge issue with resolution falloff as the lenses are stopped down. I don't think they are particularly comparable.

Also, someone mentioned a set of T1.3 lenses that range from 9.5 to 25mm. Those are 16mm format lenses, not 35.
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#19 Stephen Williams

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 12:39 PM

Hi,

This may be of interest

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

The 18mm looks like a Canon.

The Opton lenses were Zeiss lenses sold in easten block countries. They are T1.4, I don't know how many Iris blades.

FYI Oberkochen is where Carl Zeiss is based

The opening price of $3900 in Arri Bayo was more in line with what I would expect.

Stephen
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#20 Luke Prendergast

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 04:35 PM

They are T1.4, I don't know how many Iris blades.


3 blades can be seen in a few of the pics.
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