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Ziess Ikon Moviflex S8


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#1 Victor Mejia

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 08:29 PM

I just bought one. Mint condition. Now I'm looking for a manual. Anyone know where I can get one--for FREE?
Thanks.
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#2 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 10 June 2006 - 10:57 AM

I just bought one. Mint condition. Now I'm looking for a manual. Anyone know where I can get one--for FREE?
Thanks.


lol, I think the computer age has left us thinking we need instruction manuals for everything we purchase. But since most Super-8 cameras were made prior to the first apple computer that was ever sold, the applicable rules are slightly different. I think it's smart to want a manual, but I don't think it's necessary to wait to test your camera until you find one.

Maybe Santo will pay a visit since he has used that camera in the past.
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#3 Roel van Noord

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Posted 10 June 2006 - 12:48 PM

Congratulations. The Zeiss is a nice camera with a great image quality.

I have a online manual of the GS8. PM me if you would like to have it mailed.

Greetings, Roel
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#4 Rick Palidwor

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Posted 10 June 2006 - 05:44 PM

lol, I think the computer age has left us thinking we need instruction manuals for everything we purchase. But since most Super-8 cameras were made prior to the first apple computer that was ever sold, the applicable rules are slightly different. I think it's smart to want a manual, but I don't think it's necessary to wait to test your camera until you find one.

Maybe Santo will pay a visit since he has used that camera in the past.


On one hand I agree with Alessandro's general point but there is something unusal about the design of these cameras which is hard to figure out at first. Ironically, the manual is poorly written and not much help.


Yolia, you'll notice an aperture control on the side of the camera (the little wheel with all your f-stops). You'll notice that it's hard to turn with your fingers. You'll also notice that as soon as you press the trigger the aperture setting probably moves from where you had set it. At first you're thinking, what's up with that and what a stupid design, etc.

However, it's actually a very smart design. It works like this. If you shoot with the trigger the camera operates in fully automatic exposure mode, so the aperture dial will move around according to how much light there is. If you want to shoot auto, away you go. If you want to take control over exposure (which you probably do in most or all instances), you have to shoot with a mechanical release cable. The cable will screw into one of the two jacks near the aperture dial (one of the jacks is for single frame). Start by setting the aperture where you want, either utilizing the built-in light meter, which you activate by pulling the trigger half-way and/or adjust with your fingers - i.e. set it where you want. Now shoot with the release cable and the aperture stays where you left it. If you ever want to take a quick reading and change the aperture, pull the trigger half-way and the auto meter kicks back in, or adjust manually, and then continue shooting with the cable.

Make sense?

Rick
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#5 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 10 June 2006 - 07:12 PM

On one hand I agree with Alessandro's general point but there is something unusal about the design of these cameras which is hard to figure out at first. Ironically, the manual is poorly written and not much help.
Yolia, you'll notice an aperture control on the side of the camera (the little wheel with all your f-stops). You'll notice that it's hard to turn with your fingers. You'll also notice that as soon as you press the trigger the aperture setting probably moves from where you had set it. At first you're thinking, what's up with that and what a stupid design, etc.

However, it's actually a very smart design. It works like this. If you shoot with the trigger the camera operates in fully automatic exposure mode, so the aperture dial will move around according to how much light there is. If you want to shoot auto, away you go. If you want to take control over exposure (which you probably do in most or all instances), you have to shoot with a mechanical release cable. The cable will screw into one of the two jacks near the aperture dial (one of the jacks is for single frame). Start by setting the aperture where you want, either utilizing the built-in light meter, which you activate by pulling the trigger half-way and/or adjust with your fingers - i.e. set it where you want. Now shoot with the release cable and the aperture stays where you left it. If you ever want to take a quick reading and change the aperture, pull the trigger half-way and the auto meter kicks back in, or adjust manually, and then continue shooting with the cable.

Make sense?

Rick



Wow, that is freaky stuff. If they had gone one more step, and allowed the overriding of the autoexposure when depressing the trigger, then I would think the design is somewhat clever. For instance, if one could keep a dummy connector in the remote jack you speak of, but still use the trigger without activating the autoexposure feature, that would have been a cool combination.

I was planning on getting one of those cameras at some point but with what you are describing I'm not so sure now. I suppose one could harness the remote along the camera body until it was nestled near the real camera trigger.
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#6 Rick Palidwor

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Posted 10 June 2006 - 09:07 PM

Wow, that is freaky stuff. If they had gone one more step, and allowed the overriding of the autoexposure when depressing the trigger, then I would think the design is somewhat clever. For instance, if one could keep a dummy connector in the remote jack you speak of, but still use the trigger without activating the autoexposure feature, that would have been a cool combination.

I was planning on getting one of those cameras at some point but with what you are describing I'm not so sure now. I suppose one could harness the remote along the camera body until it was nestled near the real camera trigger.


It's not as weird as you make it sound. A lot of people choose to shoot with a remote trigger on whatever camera they have, especially if it is on a tripod and you aren't holdng the pistol grip.

I have three of these Zeiss cameras and the lens is spectacular but they are all jumpy in the gate. I think I have been cursed. If I can't get them going I am going to look into moving the lenses to another camera.

Rick
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#7 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 02:08 AM

It's not as weird as you make it sound.
Rick


It's weird if the camera trigger overrides the manual exposure setting simply because overriding a manual exposure reading via the trigger is very rare on Super-8 cameras. The maker of the Zeiss Ikon dared to be different, but it's not a normal method for most Super-8 cameras.

I suppose if one got good at developing a technique in which they momentarily depress the camera trigger to get the automatic reading than use the remote to run the camera, which would simultaneously lock the exposure meter, that might be kind of cool, but it does require two hands to achieve this.

A lot of people choose to shoot with a remote trigger on whatever camera they have, especially if it is on a tripod and you aren't holdng the pistol grip.


A "lot" of people use remote triggers? That hasn't been my experience. If the camera is on a tripod and locked off, then it makes sense to use a remote trigger, but if the camera is on a tripod and is to be tilted or panned, zoomed, rack focused or have the exposure manually reset, I would not want one hand to be occupied with a remote trigger because it means I only have one hand left to do too many other camera tasks.

Perhaps a lot of camera people use a remote trigger when shooting with this Zeiss Ikon camera because it seems they have to if they want to keep the exposure manually locked, and that is very useful information you haved shared with this forum.
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#8 jacob thomas

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 03:28 AM

It's weird if the camera trigger overrides the manual exposure setting simply because overriding a manual exposure reading via the trigger is very rare on Super-8 cameras. The maker of the Zeiss Ikon dared to be different, but it's not a normal method for most Super-8 cameras.


I agree with Alessandro the manual exposure is weird, and makes the camera annoying to use in manual mode.

What Rick didn't mention was that manual aperture can also be achieved by holding the dial to prevent the auto exposure changing its position; this ? believe it or not - was how it was designed to be used.
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#9 Victor Mejia

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 09:52 AM

On one hand I agree with Alessandro's general point but there is something unusal about the design of these cameras which is hard to figure out at first. Ironically, the manual is poorly written and not much help.
Yolia, you'll notice an aperture control on the side of the camera (the little wheel with all your f-stops). You'll notice that it's hard to turn with your fingers. You'll also notice that as soon as you press the trigger the aperture setting probably moves from where you had set it. At first you're thinking, what's up with that and what a stupid design, etc.

However, it's actually a very smart design. It works like this. If you shoot with the trigger the camera operates in fully automatic exposure mode, so the aperture dial will move around according to how much light there is. If you want to shoot auto, away you go. If you want to take control over exposure (which you probably do in most or all instances), you have to shoot with a mechanical release cable. The cable will screw into one of the two jacks near the aperture dial (one of the jacks is for single frame). Start by setting the aperture where you want, either utilizing the built-in light meter, which you activate by pulling the trigger half-way and/or adjust with your fingers - i.e. set it where you want. Now shoot with the release cable and the aperture stays where you left it. If you ever want to take a quick reading and change the aperture, pull the trigger half-way and the auto meter kicks back in, or adjust manually, and then continue shooting with the cable.

Make sense?

Rick


Yes it does. Thanks so much. I've known about the somewhat bizarre method for manual exposure on this camera, which is why I'm looking for a manual. But maybe your explanation will do. Thanks again.


I agree with Alessandro the manual exposure is weird, and makes the camera annoying to use in manual mode.

What Rick didn't mention was that manual aperture can also be achieved by holding the dial to prevent the auto exposure changing its position; this ? believe it or not - was how it was designed to be used.


Really? That sounds like it would damage the motoring system. Thanks for the info.
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#10 Rick Palidwor

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 11:12 AM

I agree with Alessandro the manual exposure is weird, and makes the camera annoying to use in manual mode.

What Rick didn't mention was that manual aperture can also be achieved by holding the dial to prevent the auto exposure changing its position; this ? believe it or not - was how it was designed to be used.


You can do this, but it isn't easy and does not sound healthy and I don't believe it was designed to be used that way. According to the users manual if you want to shoot with manual exposure you use the release cable. Pretty simple.

Rick
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#11 jacob thomas

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Posted 12 June 2006 - 05:28 PM

You can do this, but it isn't easy and does not sound healthy and I don't believe it was designed to be used that way. According to the users manual if you want to shoot with manual exposure you use the release cable. Pretty simple.


Rick is essentially right this isn't as easy as a proper manual exposure system and it doesn't seem healthy, however to quote the GS8 manual:

Sophistocated Shooting
Aperture Adjustment and correction of the automatic aperture control system
You can set the desired f-stop by hand, in order to make any particular corrections to the automatic aerture setting. To do this, turn disc (23) [The aperture disc] to setting mark (24) [the red arrow head]. During shooting, the disc must be held in place with one of your fingers. As soon as you lift your finger, the aperture is again controlled by the automatic system.


The aperture disc, like the zoom control, has a clutch system that ensures damage is not done to the motors when manual control is taken.
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#12 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 12 June 2006 - 10:01 PM

Rick is essentially right this isn't as easy as a proper manual exposure system and it doesn't seem healthy, however to quote the GS8 manual:
The aperture disc, like the zoom control, has a clutch system that ensures damage is not done to the motors when manual control is taken.


I think all Super-8 cameras use a clutch where the film cartridge spindle interlocks with the camera film cartridge advance system. Also, the zoom motor's have clutches, some exposure meter's also incorporate clutches, the film counter usually has a clutch of some sort, and super-8 cameras with 180 frame countdown counters incorporate clutches as well.

If holding the exposure meter wheel is easy to do when actually filming, then the clutch is probably working the way it is supposed to. If it takes a good deal of finger force to hold the exposure wheel so that it doesn't move when filming, then the clutch is probably not working properly.
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#13 Victor Mejia

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 09:25 PM

My camera finally arrived. Now I'm a bit confused about the internal filter--does it have one? I read the instruction manual but I'm not clear on what to do if I shoot daylight balanced film. Do I insert the socket wrench or not?!? Can anyone help me? Thanks.
Victor
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#14 Maulubekotofa

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 09:48 PM

My camera finally arrived. Now I'm a bit confused about the internal filter--does it have one? I read the instruction manual but I'm not clear on what to do if I shoot daylight balanced film. Do I insert the socket wrench or not?!? Can anyone help me? Thanks.
Victor


just zoom the lens to see the filter in it. you want to zoom so that it looks liek the internal elements are moving closer to you...than you can see the filter in place as it is pink/red - when you insert the 10 cent or 25 cent piece in the top slot you should see the filter move AWAY from the elements as you insert it...meaning it is ALWAYS in place until you insert someting in the top...
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#15 morris milne

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 01:15 AM

Just bought one of these cams MS8... i expected it to be smaller! Anyway i got it for 1Euro!!! from Ebay.de. The cam itself in in a pretty good condition, clean lens and body... although the Auto exposure seems a little dodgy, but all considered i do like it... but i have one question, what is the part above the lens that looks like you unscrew it?
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#16 Rick Palidwor

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 01:20 AM

but i have one question, what is the part above the lens that looks like you unscrew it?


I believe it is to attach things like movie lights.
Rick
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#17 Mark Dunn

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 04:09 AM

Looks more like the meter battery over to me.
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#18 jacob thomas

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 04:49 AM

Posted Image
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#19 Rick Palidwor

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 11:02 AM

Thanks Jacob. Very interesting. I always assumed it was for a light, but admittedly I was a little confused by the design. You've cleared things up.
Rick
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#20 Victor Mejia

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 12:54 AM

just zoom the lens to see the filter in it. you want to zoom so that it looks liek the internal elements are moving closer to you...than you can see the filter in place as it is pink/red - when you insert the 10 cent or 25 cent piece in the top slot you should see the filter move AWAY from the elements as you insert it...meaning it is ALWAYS in place until you insert someting in the top...


OK. I'll try it. Thanks a billion.
Victor
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