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Want to buy a professional CAMERA


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#1 DMW

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 06:45 AM

size=7]Hello Everybody! :D

I'm looking for a camera for my panel. I have a plan to setup my editing panel within 15days with FCP studio 5.1.

I heard Sony DSR 400 is a professional DV cam which can capture broadcast quality photography. I don?t know whether this is correct or not. My budget around USD 6000/=. I can also spend a little high if there is any better facility available.
How about HDV or HD cam? Is it more expensive? How much an entry level professional camera (compare to DSR 400) will cost? Any idea? Any Suggestion!

What is the basic difference of DV and HDV? May I shoot the ad film with both? Which will be better? Pardon me for my poor knowledge, please.

Keep continue on this pl.


Thanks to the moderator and the members to help me.


Dream Merchant
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 09:48 AM

Don't cross-post. I just posted an answer to the same question under another thread under another forum ("film look on DV cameras" / First Time Filmmakers Forum).
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#3 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 09:55 AM

Does the US$6000 include the lens?

Quickly looking around any prices I've seen for the DSR 400 seem to be around $11,000 with a lens. You may also need a good tripod, because a DV type tripod just wouldn't handle a bigger camera and for an ad you want a high quality tripod.

If your budget is $6000, you seem to be limited to buying a HDV pro-sumer camera.

Unless you want to hire in a camera, HDCAM is well above your budget to purchase.

You can shoot HDV and then downconvert to SD in post. You can also shoot DV on a HDV camera.

The choice of camera would depend on the content and style of the ad.

If you're just doing one ad, it would make more sense to hire the camera.
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#4 DMW

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 10:31 AM

Does the US$6000 include the lens?

Quickly looking around any prices I've seen for the DSR 400 seem to be around $11,000 with a lens. You may also need a good tripod, because a DV type tripod just wouldn't handle a bigger camera and for an ad you want a high quality tripod.

If your budget is $6000, you seem to be limited to buying a HDV pro-sumer camera.

Unless you want to hire in a camera, HDCAM is well above your budget to purchase.

You can shoot HDV and then downconvert to SD in post. You can also shoot DV on a HDV camera.

The choice of camera would depend on the content and style of the ad.

If you're just doing one ad, it would make more sense to hire the camera.



Great to hear from you!

Thanks for helping me. I knew that the DSR 400 is much higher priced than my budget but I also heard that HDV is much better than DV camera. Is it true?

What is HDV pro-sumer?

I read about Sony HVR Z1, JVC HDV CAnon XL2 etc. in the net. Are they professional camera's?

I am now using hired DV cam or DG beta for Ad and drama serial shooting. But I am setting up my mind to buy a professional camera on my own. I may start my own work with my camera as well as I can give that camera rent out for other to use.

Whats your suggestion now?

I need experienced help.

REgards
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#5 Elmar Tewes

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 10:42 AM

it also has something to do with what you want to do with the final piece you made. when you plan on blowing it up later, hd is for sure better than sd but when you plan on makeing a dvd, there are other options (my personal opinion)
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#6 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 02:05 PM

Great to hear from you!

Thanks for helping me. I knew that the DSR 400 is much higher priced than my budget but I also heard that HDV is much better than DV camera. Is it true?

What is HDV pro-sumer?

I read about Sony HVR Z1, JVC HDV CAnon XL2 etc. in the net. Are they professional camera's?

I am now using hired DV cam or DG beta for Ad and drama serial shooting. But I am setting up my mind to buy a professional camera on my own. I may start my own work with my camera as well as I can give that camera rent out for other to use.

Whats your suggestion now?

I need experienced help.

REgards


HDV is pro-sumer. The Sony HVR Z1, JVC HD100 and Canon XL2 are used professionally, although the XL2 is a Mini DV camera, the XL H1 is the Canon HDV camera. Each camera fits a different niche in the market and you'd need to decide which suits you best. Price wise I suspect you'll have to rule out the XL H1.

HDV picture quality when downconverted to SD is comparable with the high end DVCam cameras, some say better, but not as good as DigiBeta.

You'll also need accessories to have a working camera kit.
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#7 DMW

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 10:36 AM

HDV is pro-sumer. The Sony HVR Z1, JVC HD100 and Canon XL2 are used professionally, although the XL2 is a Mini DV camera, the XL H1 is the Canon HDV camera. Each camera fits a different niche in the market and you'd need to decide which suits you best. Price wise I suspect you'll have to rule out the XL H1.

HDV picture quality when downconverted to SD is comparable with the high end DVCam cameras, some say better, but not as good as DigiBeta.

You'll also need accessories to have a working camera kit.



Thanks for the reply.

Sir I would like to hear your opinion which camera should I go for? I would like to shoot TV serials , documentary and TV commercials with that camera. In future I will try to shoot mini 35 with this after buying some lenses. No Idea whether it will be ok with or not.

What kind of accesories you are talking about for the camera kit? I will buy matte box, tripod and field monitor. Looking for any comments on tripod and field monitor but nobody talks about this. I got some information regarding tripod and came to a conclusion that LIBEC might be better for me. What is your suggestion? Field monitor not yet have any idea.

Waiting for professionals and experienced opinion from the seniors.

Pl help me.

HELP

best regards

a:
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#8 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 11:51 AM

Not to offend you, but you've been hired to shoot a TV drama serial... and you are asking such basic video questions, like what is the difference between DV and HDV, what is a prosumer versus a professional camera, etc.?

As people have said to you, these $6000 cameras are "prosumer", or what you could call semi-professional -- basically consumer designs but used for low-end professional work.

Pro cameras tend to have the basic ENG design; a removable manual zoom lens is often a trademark, among other features (XLR inputs for audio, SMPTE color bars, etc.) So the JVC HD100 comes closest to that design approach. But professional work has been done with all of those prosumer cameras; they all have XLR mic inputs, generate color bars, etc.

The real pro cameras -- like a Sony DSR450, for example -- start over the $10,000 mark usually. It's a gray area; a professional camera is really any camera used by a professional that gets him professional results.

As for whether HDV is better than DV, it's not a simple question to answer because what defines "better" is everything from resolution, color, compression, camera features, lens optics, etc. HDV is HDTV and DV is SDTV. But in many ways, a good professional DV camera will deliver a "better" image than a lower-end HDV camera except that the HDV is HD resolution. So it just depends on what aspect of the image is important to your project, i.e. do you need HD resolution.

With the way the market has been drifting towards more HDTV, going up to HDV isn't a bad idea but the question is whether you know how to handle it in post. All the HDV cameras have their pros and cons so to some degreee, it depends on which is best-suited for your shooting situation. You might hang out on dvinfo.net and see what new buyers of HDV are saying.
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#9 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 11:58 AM

To be honest, you're expecting a lot from a budget camera.

Price wise you're looking at the the Sony Z1 or the JVC HD 100. The former is interlace and the latter is progressive. You should go to your local dealers, look at these cameras and test them before making any decisions. They are very different cameras.

Discuss with your editor if you can handle the progressive output from the JVC.

You should also factor in enough batteries. The IDX batteries (or other brands) make a lot of sense for the JVC, but they cost more.

Sorry, I don't know any thing about LIBEC tripods.
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#10 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 12:10 PM

I'm sensing that if he doesn't even know if he needs progressive scan, and is shooting something more like reality TV where an interlaced-scan look is OK, then he should keep things simple and get the Sony HDV camera as a sort of "starter HD" set-up. It creates a very nice 1080i picture and won't push him over his budget.

Or conversely, if he's not sure how to post HDV, maybe he's better off staying in standard def land and getting the Canon XL2, which has a 16x9 option and does progressive-scan if needed.
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#11 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 02:03 PM

I'm sensing that if he doesn't even know if he needs progressive scan, and is shooting something more like reality TV where an interlaced-scan look is OK, then he should keep things simple and get the Sony HDV camera as a sort of "starter HD" set-up. It creates a very nice 1080i picture and won't push him over his budget.

Or conversely, if he's not sure how to post HDV, maybe he's better off staying in standard def land and getting the Canon XL2, which has a 16x9 option and does progressive-scan if needed.



That makes a lot of sense.
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#12 DMW

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 12:45 AM

That makes a lot of sense.



Thanks Mr. David and Mr. Brian.

I am very sorry to post lot of stupid questions in the forum. Please pardon me for my stupid questions and poor knowledge.

As a matter of fact in our country we don?t have this kind of high-tech knowledge institute or personnel who can give us some light. I stayed in Bangladesh which is a developing country in South East Asia. Usually we purchase our Camera and other equipments from Singapore. We do not have any shop or dealer in Bangladesh. There are 7 channels in Bangladesh. One is govt. owned terrestrial channel and other 6 are private satellite channels. Very recent we are moving from Beta Cam to DV cam. Till now our govt. channel only receive Beta tape and other channels receive both Beta and DV tape. Here is only one Digi Beta camera and only one smoke machine. Now a day some of the young editors start working with FCP, Matrox Axio etc. A new generation young?s mostly Director like me who are fortunate to some extent travel Singapore, Bangkok or Mumbai basically trying this new things to introduce in our industry. We don?t have any academic background, no film institute, no DOP workshop going on ever, no dealer shop to check the camera, no lab to see the results of other works. What we have? Interest, eager to know more about techniques and equipments form you people who are enlightened and experience enough. Who are fortunate enough to touch, feel the latest equipments, can take rental and shoot some demo stock with reasonable/affordable cost. May be in future we may be get the things in our country, we are hopeful. By the time we are seeking information, hang on the net to learn from you guys and share among others like minded fellows in our industry. You know when there is only one Sony DSR 570 in our industry all we went there and try to touch the camera for getting the feel. We always hang on the STAR channels and think how we can make our production close to that quality with affordable price. Some of us joined every year to the Asia Pacific Ad Fest to see the latest work. Our industry has some Beta and DV cameras. Lot more we want to buy individually to enhance our work. The business people only think about to make money with the cheaper cost camera but we want to look into the quality also with affordable price. That?s why I want to invest in upgrade camera and editing panel. Here in Bangladesh usually a DV/Beta camera rental is USD 50/fllday. And editing panel rental is USD 40/8hours.

I am thanking you for having patience on my stupid questions but I am sorry, I can?t help myself. I want to learn and get informed to buy my camera within this month.

Thank you very very much to giving me lights.

Best wishes to all of you.

Warm regards
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#13 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 04:13 AM

It's tough when there's no infrastructure. However, you and fellow film makers can achieve a lot by working together, creating your own training schemes and grass roots organisations. This is what they did in Ireland - twenty five years ago there was very little, now there's a small film industry.

Best of luck.
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#14 DMW

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 08:24 AM

It's tough when there's no infrastructure. However, you and fellow film makers can achieve a lot by working together, creating your own training schemes and grass roots organisations. This is what they did in Ireland - twenty five years ago there was very little, now there's a small film industry.

Best of luck.


Thanks for your wish for us. Hope someday we will share our gained knowledge with you. Meanwhile can you help me providing a suggestion should I buy a Sony DSR 400PAL or Sony DSR 450 WS. I have the idea regarding the price but no idea with the technical advantage.

Will look for your valuable opinion.

Good luck.
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#15 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 09:30 AM

Thanks for your wish for us. Hope someday we will share our gained knowledge with you. Meanwhile can you help me providing a suggestion should I buy a Sony DSR 400PAL or Sony DSR 450 WS. I have the idea regarding the price but no idea with the technical advantage.

Will look for your valuable opinion.

Good luck.


The answer depends if you're ever likely to need to shoot with the 16 x 9 aspect ratio.

The DSR 400 only shoots 4 x 3, while the DSR 450 handles both 16 x 9 and 4 x 3.

Because nearly everything is shot 16 x 9 here, people would only buy the DSR 450. So, if you were planning to get involved with a production intended for the UK that's the camera you'd buy. It's also handy if you're planning to shoot for the cinema.
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#16 Ralph Oshiro

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 04:17 AM

Dear Dream Merchant:

If you can afford it, I would highly recommend the DSR450 over the DSR400 or any of the other 1/3" CCD prosumer HDV cameras. With the DSR450, you get a professional production tool that competes nicely with most any other 2/3" SD broadcast camera out there. It has 24-frame, progressive shooting capability to emulate film's motion characteristics, and a native, 16:9, widescreen aspect ratio to further emulate film's wider aspect ratio. These are the same types of features employed by top-of-the-line cameras from Sony and Panasonic such as the HDW-F900 CineAlta and Varicam HD cameras, only the DSR450 is SD resolution and a fraction of the cost.

Since your country's broadcast infrastructure is still in its infancy, I think a high quality, professional-level SD camera such as the DSR450 may serve you far better than a small prosumer HDV camcorder. If budget is an issue, and you have an immediate need for HD capability, the JVC HD100 is a nice pro-style product which produces a 720P HDV signal. The HD100 is still what I would consider a "prosumer" camera with its 1/3" CCDs. With the JVC, you'll save a lot of money over the DSR450, and you'll have pictures with greater resolution, but at the cost of higher picture noise levels, lowered low-light sensitivity, and inherently greater depth-of-field (not desirable for "selective focus" photography--a popular cinematography technique). And, your HDV workflow will be a bit more taxing on your editing workstation. In my opinion, the Sony DSR450 is a breakthrough indie-cinema camera at a price that's pretty darn low for what you're getting.

Regards,

Ralph Oshiro, DP/camera operator

Edited by Ralph Oshiro, 23 June 2006 - 04:21 AM.

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#17 DMW

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 03:37 AM

Dear Dream Merchant:

If you can afford it, I would highly recommend the DSR450 over the DSR400 or any of the other 1/3" CCD prosumer HDV cameras. With the DSR450, you get a professional production tool that competes nicely with most any other 2/3" SD broadcast camera out there. It has 24-frame, progressive shooting capability to emulate film's motion characteristics, and a native, 16:9, widescreen aspect ratio to further emulate film's wider aspect ratio. These are the same types of features employed by top-of-the-line cameras from Sony and Panasonic such as the HDW-F900 CineAlta and Varicam HD cameras, only the DSR450 is SD resolution and a fraction of the cost.

Since your country's broadcast infrastructure is still in its infancy, I think a high quality, professional-level SD camera such as the DSR450 may serve you far better than a small prosumer HDV camcorder. If budget is an issue, and you have an immediate need for HD capability, the JVC HD100 is a nice pro-style product which produces a 720P HDV signal. The HD100 is still what I would consider a "prosumer" camera with its 1/3" CCDs. With the JVC, you'll save a lot of money over the DSR450, and you'll have pictures with greater resolution, but at the cost of higher picture noise levels, lowered low-light sensitivity, and inherently greater depth-of-field (not desirable for "selective focus" photography--a popular cinematography technique). And, your HDV workflow will be a bit more taxing on your editing workstation. In my opinion, the Sony DSR450 is a breakthrough indie-cinema camera at a price that's pretty darn low for what you're getting.

Regards,

Ralph Oshiro, DP/camera operator


Dear Mr. Oshiro

Thank you very much for your valubale opinion. Now I will take my decision. Price difference is almost 2400 GBP. I have to think this 2400 GBP extra what will give me in future. I live in Bangladesh so I have to check now Singapore market regarding the price.

Thank you all for helping me.

Warm regards
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