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#1 bernard

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 10:11 PM

I'm wanting to transfer an animation of mine to film but I don't have the money to buy a camera. I was wondering if anybody would know of a way to modify a regular still camera to accept 35mm movie film. Or if it's even possible.

It seems to me that it is but i'm running into a few problems. On a normal still camera film loads horizontally and on motion picture cameras it loads vertically. And the frames are sized differently. I know this is all obvious but those are the two main problems I can't seem to work around.

Also if I can get any of this to work I plan on outfitting it with an anamorphic lens for a widescreen shot. Not sure if that will make doing any of this harder or not.

If anybody has any ideas or can think of any other problems that might arise I'd be appreciative.
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#2 Chris Keth

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 12:56 AM

I'm wanting to transfer an animation of mine to film but I don't have the money to buy a camera. I was wondering if anybody would know of a way to modify a regular still camera to accept 35mm movie film. Or if it's even possible.

It seems to me that it is but i'm running into a few problems. On a normal still camera film loads horizontally and on motion picture cameras it loads vertically. And the frames are sized differently. I know this is all obvious but those are the two main problems I can't seem to work around.

Also if I can get any of this to work I plan on outfitting it with an anamorphic lens for a widescreen shot. Not sure if that will make doing any of this harder or not.

If anybody has any ideas or can think of any other problems that might arise I'd be appreciative.



Why don't you use a digital SLR to shoot, compile it into a nice high quality quicktime, and have a lab do a film out for you?

I don't think making a 35mm single frame movie camera is very practical for many reasons.

On the other hand, what's wrong with 16mm? Good, cheap, single-frame-capable 16mm cameras are extremely common and easy to lay hands on. Surely your animation doesn't need 35mm resolution...
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#3 bernard

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 01:32 AM

well the animation is already on my computer so the digital camera isn't required. as far as having a lab do it theres no way i can afford that. a two hour movie would cost around $40,000 or more. it's a really high quality animation and i don't believe 16mm would do it justice. it should be done in another year and i'm planning on showing it at various festivals so i'd really like it to look the best that it can. but thanks for the advice.
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#4 Michael Collier

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 02:03 AM

If its already on computer, why are you trying to film it? (also, how do you plan on filming it? just shooting the monitor?)

Seems if its high quality raster, or vector animation, couldnt you just render out to a HD, 2k or 4k file and send that out for a laser print? Seems like that would be quicker, easier, and maybe even cheaper than trying to do it on a still camera (and definatley cheaper than printing out each frame and photographing it.)

I guess we need a little more info to give advice. we know the equipment, but I think few of us are animators.

Sorry, i just saw the part where you said you dont have the money to film out. If its for festival, is there anything wrong with showing an HD cut? there is no worry about highlight handling, video look etc. so actual film may not impart any advantages.

Sorry, i just saw the part where you said you dont have the money to film out. If its for festival, is there anything wrong with showing an HD cut? there is no worry about highlight handling, video look etc. so actual film may not impart any advantages.
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#5 bernard

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 02:16 AM

well i need it on film because not all festivals have digital projectors. and i like the look of film better than digital. as far as having a laser print it's expensive. $40,000 is the cheapest price i've had quoted.

the cheapest way will be to do it myself just like the old animators use to do. and yeah i would output it onto a high resolution monitor and film it frame by frame. in order to do that you have to have a stop motion animation camera. i can't afford one so i'm trying to convert a regular 35mm slr still camera to accept vertical movie film.

i was hoping someone on here would have some tips on how i might go about doing this.
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#6 Stephen Williams

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 04:20 AM

i can't afford one so i'm trying to convert a regular 35mm slr still camera to accept vertical movie film.

i was hoping someone on here would have some tips on how i might go about doing this.


Hi,

If you find one I am sure you could buy one. I have seen a ful blown Oxberry master series stand with 16 & 35mm movements fail to win any bids on Ebay. The opening price was $1000.

Stephen
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#7 Nick Mulder

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 04:37 AM

i was hoping someone on here would have some tips on how i might go about doing this.



I dont have any direct links to a page with diagrams and instructions, but people have been fiddling and modifying cameras for over 100 years now - it depends how good you are with tools and design...

I did a double take when I saw what these people had done to a Mamiya RZ67 body:

http://www.design.ar...erasystems.html (top pic)

there is a great forum at www.APUG.org which is specifically for camera builders - you might want to ask the 35mm people there some questions... like which body would be best to mod... the main trick would be the 4-perf pull and getting good frame to frame registration ;) - not to mention building a scratch free mag of some sort ...
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#8 Jaan Shenberger

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 07:47 AM

keep in mind that if you print out each frame and rephotograph them on an animation stand, you will end up paying a lot in printer cartridges. and worst of all, i can guarantee you that there will be frame to frame color shifts somewhere in your final.

and as others mentioned, it's not hard to find an affordable animation stand, since they are industrially obsolete. i've actually heard of them offered for free to anyone willing to come get them.

i would suggest making a standard def dvd of your animation and hitting up local arts/film councils to try and get a grant for the filmout. they love projects like yours-- big ones that are nearly completed. and they may wanna support you since animation is a medium that is accessible to average folks.

best of luck.

Edited by jaan, 25 June 2006 - 07:51 AM.

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#9 bernard

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 09:25 AM

thanks for all the suggestions. i'm definitely not going to print out each frame. that's about 170,000 frames i'd have to print out. my printer would die and you're right that would cost a ton.

i plan to output each image at 1920x1080 on an hd monitor. that resolution coupled with the grain from the 35mm film should give it a real nice look. i do plan to make a dvd until i can get it on film.

i've been checking ebay for cameras but so far no luck. but i'm still set on modifying one of these slr cameras for cheap. i enjoy a good challenge. it makes the end result all the more enjoyable.
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#10 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 02:43 PM

thanks for all the suggestions. i'm definitely not going to print out each frame. that's about 170,000 frames i'd have to print out. my printer would die and you're right that would cost a ton.


If you need shoot of 170000 frames, the SLR mechanical, SLR digital photo cameras would die too.
From practical side, photo cameras have not high structural strength.

I know this from practical side, because my Epson 850 die after a some time on idea of transfer image from cine film on computer.

Possible, professional SLR photo camera will have more long time of life, need check technical information.
But, Not any processing lab will take film from you for processing on short ends of less 30 m of film.
If you wish make footage with professional quality, you need use professional cine equipments for stop motion shooting.
The every stop motion camera have high precision transport mechanism with a few transport pins and a few registration pins. And the registration pins very important, because, you need high stability of position of pictures.
That's why, not need save money on the equipments, because, all footages you can throw out from technical quality.
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#11 Valeriu Campan

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 08:31 AM

Bernard,

If you really want to shoot a computer monitor, consider an animation camera - hire or buy:
http://rafcamera.com...products_id=175.
Try to put together a similar system to this one where a re-wired mouse advances each image and controls the camera as well:
http://www.moviestuf...m_function.html
You should work close with a film lab and make tests with a variety of film stocks to get the best results.
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#12 Chris Keth

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 11:51 AM

well i need it on film because not all festivals have digital projectors. and i like the look of film better than digital. as far as having a laser print it's expensive. $40,000 is the cheapest price i've had quoted.

the cheapest way will be to do it myself just like the old animators use to do. and yeah i would output it onto a high resolution monitor and film it frame by frame. in order to do that you have to have a stop motion animation camera. i can't afford one so i'm trying to convert a regular 35mm slr still camera to accept vertical movie film.

i was hoping someone on here would have some tips on how i might go about doing this.



Well, it seems to me that if you can't afford to have a lab transfer it right, and you can't bother to track down a proper animation crane and camera, that you should just go with digital copies and forego the festivals that won't take digital materials (which are extremely few now, by the way)
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#13 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 02:58 PM

i'd really like it to look the best that it can.


I'm not sure if you achieve "it to look the best that it can" by modifying a slr...just for steadiness!?!?etc. dslrs usually die between 50'000 and 200'000 clicks, no idea how long a modified slr works...

even if you get your film on negative; don't forget the sound, the optical soundtrack is expensive too... :(

most festivals I visited had very good video-projectors...

where do you live? most countries give money for movies and cultural stuff, sometimes there are programms for founding postproduction etc...


cheers, Bernhard
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#14 Mike Rizos

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 04:56 PM

You can try an Olympus half frame camera from about 30 years ago. Thet are probably plentiful and cheap on e-bay. One line was SLRs with interchangable lenses that might suit your needs, but I expect your framelines will be all over the place.
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#15 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 07:36 PM

Why not just send your digital animation as HD over to a film-out company, as opposed to displaying it as HD and rephotographing it yourself?
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#16 Nate Downes

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Posted 17 July 2006 - 06:35 AM

I have a 16mm animation camera already. I'm not the fastest worker, but I'd be happy to get you a 16mm negative copy of it for the cost of film + processing. I tried the SLR approach once, wore out 4 cameras on a smaller piece. From there, you can easily get a blowup to 35mm.
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