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#1 Dan Paola

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 04:58 AM

I have recently purchased a Beaulieu ZMII & would like to purchase a book on super 8 cinematography and was wondering whether anyone could reccomend one? I have trawled thru amazon and there seem to be a couple of titles circa 1978-82, but as these are quite expensive I thought I'd get some guidance before making my purchase.

Take care

Dan (",)
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#2 Scot McPhie

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 05:44 AM

Independent Film making by Lenny Lipton is a good one, as is The Home Movie Makers Handbook edited by Christopher Wordsworth.

You can also learn an unbelievable amount by participating in these forums - especially the filmshooting.com one which is temporarily down at the moment - just start going back through the pages here and you'll find heaps of info.

good luck with whatever you do :-)

Scot
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#3 santo

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 07:20 AM

How is super 8 cinematography so different that it requires a book different than any other good book on cinematography?

Why would anybody bother with a book written in the 70's when there are so many good modern texts you can buy new or second hand in a book store? Is it a nostalgia thing?
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#4 David W Scott

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 08:15 AM

Independent Film making by Lenny Lipton is a good one, as is The Home Movie Makers Handbook edited by Christopher Wordsworth.

You can also learn an unbelievable amount by participating in these forums - especially the filmshooting.com one which is temporarily down at the moment - just start going back through the pages here and you'll find heaps of info.

good luck with whatever you do :-)

Scot


I second the Lipton recommendation. I think it is the bible of small-format indie filmmaking. Check out different editions -- some have more or less Super 8 info, covering different cameras.

I don't know your background, but if you are new to shooting film, I would also recommend Kris Malkiewicz' "Cinematography". I see by looking at Amazon.com that new editions of this book are co-authored with David Mullen -- a definite bonus.

If you are really starting out, you should get one really good book on shooting still photography -- that includes basic lens theory, exposure, zone system and lighting.
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#5 ken wood

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 09:24 AM

Independent Film making by Lenny Lipton is a good one, as is The Home Movie Makers Handbook edited by Christopher Wordsworth.

You can also learn an unbelievable amount by participating in these forums - especially the filmshooting.com one which is temporarily down at the moment - just start going back through the pages here and you'll find heaps of info.

good luck with whatever you do :-)

Scot



There are two great books on cinematography by Blain Brown. Full color very well done.
While not specific to Super 8 Mr. Brown give all of the technical info on camera work, color, filters, etc.
They are on Amazon at about $45 each. Well worth the price. I'll buy the one on lighting next.
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#6 steve hyde

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 12:15 PM

...I recomend "Film Technologies in Post Production" by Dominic Case. The second ed can be found easily. The book is printed by Focal Press... Although keep in mind this book is not specific to Super 8. In fact I don't think super 8 is even mentioned in it, but the workflows are the same for all film gauges. (more or less)

For learning about DIY telecine and other creative techniques try the online source: filmshooting.com

Also in case you haven't found it here:

http://www.cinematog...hp?showforum=43

Steve

Edited by steve hyde, 27 June 2006 - 12:17 PM.

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#7 Darren Blin

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 06:18 PM

Dan
I recommend just looking online for information. The internet is the best resource available. With all the new film stocks, no book from 20 years ago would give you the updated infoprmation that you need. I recommend:

http://www.onsuper8.org

as a great starting point.

Regards
Blin
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#8 Matt Pacini

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 06:24 PM

How is super 8 cinematography so different that it requires a book different than any other good book on cinematography?

Why would anybody bother with a book written in the 70's when there are so many good modern texts you can buy new or second hand in a book store? Is it a nostalgia thing?


Because that's the last time most cameras out there were made, and there are lots of idiosyncracies that specific S8 cameras have, that you wouldn't know from regular books on cinematography.

For instance, when I started shooting S8, I was using a hand-held lightmeter, thinking this would be more accurate than the internal meter in the camera.
Well, guess what? All my footage came out underexposed, because all S8 cameras with beam splitters (almost all of them), have their internal lightmeters compensating for the lost light.
Stuff like that will be in some of these old Super 8 books.

I suggest the Lipton book as well.

MP
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#9 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 11:55 PM

Besides "Independent Filmmaking" (I wonder if he got the term "independent" started to describe this type of production?) he also wrote a book specifically on Super-8.
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#10 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 03:38 PM

Besides "Independent Filmmaking" (I wonder if he got the term "independent" started to describe this type of production?) he also wrote a book specifically on Super-8.


---Museum film programmers were using the term by the late 60s instead of 'underground'.

Perhaps the term 'underground' had become politically co-opted by the Weather Underground and such;
or it wasn't an edifying enough term for a museum venue.

---LV
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#11 santo

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 04:19 PM

independent has been around since the 30's. re: "the independents". howard hughes was an independent with WINGS, for example. exploitation filmmakers were on and off refered to (poor pun intended as in refer madness) as the independents in the 30's and the 40's. by the 50's we had the independents making stuff for the drive-in market and hardtops.

lenny lipton never contributed a damn thing to independent filmmaking except writing now hopelessly outdated 1970's books refered to endlessly by out of touch super 8 nostalgia buffs and those who don't know any better because they've been living under a rock.
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#12 Tim Halloran

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 05:24 AM

independent has been around since the 30's. re: "the independents".


Earlier.

Between the years 1908 and 1912, a number of individuals formed companies to produce films outside of the dictates and regulations of the Motion Picture Patents Company, controlled principally by the Edison Company and often referred to simply as the "Trust." These outsider filmmakers were popularly known as "outlaws" or "independents," and are best exemplified by none other than Carl Laemmle, who would launch his first production company in 1909 under the name "The Independent Moving Picture Company", known as IMP.

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#13 John Adolfi

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 06:21 AM

independent has been around since the 30's. re: "the independents". howard hughes was an independent with WINGS, for example. exploitation filmmakers were on and off refered to (poor pun intended as in refer madness) as the independents in the 30's and the 40's. by the 50's we had the independents making stuff for the drive-in market and hardtops.

lenny lipton never contributed a damn thing to independent filmmaking except writing now hopelessly outdated 1970's books refered to endlessly by out of touch super 8 nostalgia buffs and those who don't know any better because they've been living under a rock.



What are some of your favorite upto date super 8 books? Do they even have one? Brodsky and Treadway were the last no?
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#14 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 11:04 AM

lenny lipton never contributed a damn thing to independent filmmaking except writing now hopelessly outdated 1970's books refered to endlessly by out of touch super 8 nostalgia buffs and those who don't know any better because they've been living under a rock.


Writing an important and popular book of a particular era is no small accomplishment and does "contribute" to the filmmaking of that era.

And someone like you working mainly in Super-8 should be the last person to accuse others of living in the past.
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#15 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 12:30 PM

To clarify my snipe back at Santo's sniping, I wouldn't dismiss the nostalgia element in filmmaking, even 35mm production let alone 16mm or Super-8. We don't work in a vacuum, only in the present, we need to respect the history of our artform even if the origins are humble.

Besides, if one really only wanted to think of Super-8 from an engineering standpoint and was only concerned about maximizing image quality, then eventually you run into the fact that you are dealing with a film frame that is smaller than a fingernail. So you have to recognize that you are attempting to improve a format that has limitations by its basic design.

It's a little like people who want to fit 35mm cine optics to a consumer DV camera -- yes, you can improve the quality, but before you spend too much time and effort to do so, you have to ask yourself if you may get better results in a simpler fashion by changing the format or camera.

Personally, I think it would be great if someone built a new Super-8 camera from the ground up, perhaps modelled on the Aaton A-minima or Arri 416. Spinning mirror reflex, 200' mags, quiet, crystal-sync, multiple frame rates, bright viewfinder, 16x9 gate, etc.

I have a question: are all Super-8 cameras used? Are any of the companies still making new ones? If not, when was the last new Super-8 camera manufactured?
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#16 steve hyde

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 01:23 PM

I have been told that the Beaulieu 9008 was still being manufactured in the 1990s - the production ended as late as 2002...

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http://www.beaulieu.fr/

Having now worked with a Beaulieu 4008 (not 9008), I have to say that they are amazing little cameras. I have mine outfited with a light weight Angeniuex 5.9mm fixed focus lens, which makes it an aperature-and-shoot camera that is great for car interiors and other kinds of closed-quarters shooting...Good for filming in crowded places too.

I think the Beaulieu 9008 is currently more expensive than the Ikonoskop A-cam which seems to me to be a better small gauge option in many ways since super 16 is something like 6 times the gauge of super 8...

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#17 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 01:38 PM

independent has been around since the 30's. re: "the independents". howard hughes was an independent with WINGS, for example. exploitation filmmakers were on and off refered to (poor pun intended as in refer madness) as the independents in the 30's and the 40's. by the 50's we had the independents making stuff for the drive-in market and hardtops.


------As Humpty Dumpty said: "A word means exactly whatever I want it to mean."

The definition of 'independent filmmakers' is always changing.

The museum circuit independent filmmakers of the 70s, which Lenny Lipton is referring to, are not the non-big studio independents you are referring to.
Nor are either today's festival circuit Hollywood wannabbees.

What will the next "independent filmmakers" be?

---LV
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#18 santo

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 01:47 PM

etmh1, thank you for your scholarly contribution. it looks good on you.

mullen, you continue to completely miss the boat on everything i've ever advocated and what kodak and dozens of post shops have made reality with regards to a modern approach to super 8 in the 21st century. living in the past involves ignoring all those things and buying dusty old outdated books by Lipton and doing crude DIY telecine and pining over the loss of K40 -- like you bizarrely continue to advocate with regards to super 8, oblivious to all that's happening in the big old world.


What will the next "independent filmmakers" be?

---LV


anybody who is not backed/financed/controlled by a studio or distribution system when they make a film is an independent filmmaker. they are acting independently without an outside mandate or ties. it's a very simple thing to define.
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#19 Matt Pacini

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 05:24 PM

I'd like to chime in, first in regards to your comments about Lipton, second about your comments about Mullen:

1. Obviously, some things in Lipton's book have modern counterparts that are superior, since people have been advancing Super 8 in the lasat 25 years. However, like I said earlier, since almost all Super 8 cameras were made around the time he wrote that book, and because modern cinematography books cover either general topics, or specific topics in regard to 16mm & 35mm, but almost never Super 8, his book is still valuable.
Just because 100% of it is not current, doesn't mean it's worthless, especially since there are NO better replacements for it out there.

2. Calling David Mullen, not only has shot many films, but shot them beautifully, "oblivious to all that's happening in the big old world." just shoots your credibility to hell, and makes you sound like some wacky crank 16 year old zit-faced wannabee.
I mean, let's be serious. Look him up on www.imdb.com & then try not to blush too much after you realize what you've done.

MP
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#20 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 08:37 PM

I'm just amazed that Santo doesn't see the inherent contradictions of thinking about Super-8 as 21st Century technology.

Sure we have new stocks, new telecines which have benefited Super-8 by a trickle-down effect from the professional 16mm/35mm world -- but where are the new CAMERAS? Someone is using C-mount lenses on old Super-8 cameras and yet claiming they are working with cutting-edge technology just because they can load Vision-2 stocks into the camera??? I'm sorry, but like ALL film technology, there are elements and processes that are very old and some that are very new. And old isn't necessarily bad.

But to also make it a point of pride that one is working with the "latest" technology... yet concentrate on shooting in Super-8, with no respect for the history of their format of choice because of its embarrassing (to him) connections to consumer home movies, well, it's all a bit strange psychologically. But I give up trying to reason with the guy.
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