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Nikon R10 movement


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#1 Bill Totolo

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 01:23 AM

Are both claws in the movement of a Nikon R10 supposed to be pull down claws or does one merely act as some sort of guide?

I just purchased one of these cameras and noticed, by eye balling the movement, that only the top claw seems to move.

Thanks,
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#2 Matt Pacini

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 06:20 PM

Wow, that's a good question. I have one, and never noticed that.
However it works, it's definitely effective though. The R-10 has a very steady image for such a tiny format.
I love my R-10!

MP
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#3 santo

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 06:34 PM

Are both claws in the movement of a Nikon R10 supposed to be pull down claws or does one merely act as some sort of guide?

I just purchased one of these cameras and noticed, by eye balling the movement, that only the top claw seems to move.

Thanks,


Yes, this has been established before elsewhere and I've even got a little video of it somewhere that somebody else took of their example. The extra claw just sits there. However, what the heck does it do? Clearly it is not pin-registering the film, nor is it even acting as a double pull-down claw during regular filmmaking based on what everybody seems to observe and has video captured for examination.

Could you run the camera through its special effect features, Bill? Rewinding and double exposure routines. And then watch to see if the extra claw is involved in that? It must be there for some reason.

I've never gotten around to picking up one of these cameras, but it remains a mystery that could be solved very quickly by simple observation and testing.
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#4 Scot McPhie

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 06:36 PM

Wow, that's a good question. I have one, and never noticed that.
However it works, it's definitely effective though. The R-10 has a very steady image for such a tiny format.
I love my R-10!

MP


I don't have one of theses cameras - but could that other pin be the registration pin? - aren't they the only Super 8 camera with a registration pin - hence giving them the steadiest image out of all the Super 8 cameras?

Mitch Perkins of Sleep Always fame could anser that for you

Scot
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#5 santo

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 06:41 PM

I don't have one of theses cameras - but could that other pin be the registration pin? - aren't they the only Super 8 camera with a registration pin -


Nope. It's not a registration pin, isn't designed as one, and doesn't function as one. This was demonstrated and proven and beaten into a horse skeleton on that other site. As you well know.
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#6 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 06:51 PM

I just ran my R10 through its paces - fade/disolve/reverse - that little double 'claw' (I say double as the 'second' claw seams to have 2 pins) doesn't move in any of these modes. I tried to simulate a cart being in the camera by pressing all the relevant little detector buttons. No difference.
So at least we can say your camera is not faulty.
Richard
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#7 santo

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 09:30 PM

Well I'll be... :huh:

I've always noticed that, though it is a unique and one-of-a-kind feature in super 8 cameras, Nikon never promoted or mentioned it anywhere! Not a mention in the manual. No mention in any brochures I've seen. It's like it never existed. You'd think something unique like this would be something to call attention to as a selling point. But they sure never seemed to think so!

It can only lead me to wonder if this thing is some kind of failed concept that they just disabled when it proved impractical and pointless in production models, rather than do an expensive reengineer of the camera? I guess it's not all that different from some less than stellar automotive designs.
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#8 Bill Totolo

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 01:39 AM

I really appreciate your knowledgeable feedback on this. It's set my mind at ease.

I noticed that when I put the camera in "Reverse " mode this mysterious second claw retracts and another claw below it extends.

I have more questions!

Regarding the the filter key. Is it supposed to stick out of the camera (above the body)? I'm hesitant to push too hard. It only seems to want to go into its slot about a 1/4 inch. I have both original manuals for this camera but is very non-specific on this point.

Also, how do I turn the exposure compensation dial located within the FPS dial. It's easy enough to turn the fps dial but this compensation dial seems stuck.

And lastly and worst. As I was testing the movement of the camera, observing the pull down claw, the movement froze up and stopped. Has this happened to anyone else. Am I screwed?

Thanks in advance,
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#9 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 06:21 AM

I really appreciate your knowledgeable feedback on this. It's set my mind at ease.

I noticed that when I put the camera in "Reverse " mode this mysterious second claw retracts and another claw below it extends.

I have more questions!

Regarding the the filter key. Is it supposed to stick out of the camera (above the body)? I'm hesitant to push too hard. It only seems to want to go into its slot about a 1/4 inch. I have both original manuals for this camera but is very non-specific on this point.

Also, how do I turn the exposure compensation dial located within the FPS dial. It's easy enough to turn the fps dial but this compensation dial seems stuck.

And lastly and worst. As I was testing the movement of the camera, observing the pull down claw, the movement froze up and stopped. Has this happened to anyone else. Am I screwed?

Thanks in advance,


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#10 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 06:38 AM

Well bugger me you are right. I look again and that does happen. Sorry for getting that wrong above. Yes the two extra claw things alternately protrude (though otherwise remain still) when you switch between forward and reverse.



[quote]Regarding the the filter key. Is it supposed to stick out of the camera (above the body)? I'm hesitant to push too hard. It only seems to want to go into its slot about a 1/4 inch. I have both original manuals for this camera but is very non-specific on this point.[quote]

Yes the key only goes in a little way. Check that it is engaging by opening the cartridge door and looking through the gate while running the motor. By inserting and removing the key you should be able to see the filter come and go.

[/quote]Also, how do I turn the exposure compensation dial located within the FPS dial. It's easy enough to turn the fps dial but this compensation dial seems stuck.[quote]

Force it. There is nothing to press or release. It just likes being at '0'.

[/quote]And lastly and worst. As I was testing the movement of the camera, observing the pull down claw, the movement froze up and stopped. Has this happened to anyone else. Am I screwed?[quote]

No, the camera is probably just mid effect. Switch the forward/reverse switch to the opposite position and try again. Or try the fade in (FI) leaver. Try all the effect switches until it goes.
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#11 Bill Totolo

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 12:18 AM

All's well. You must have have been right about being stuck in mid effect.

Now I'm looking forward to putting a cart of film through it.

Thanks guys.
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#12 Andrew Means

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 11:36 AM

All's well. You must have have been right about being stuck in mid effect.

Now I'm looking forward to putting a cart of film through it.

Thanks guys.



Enjoy it man, my friends and I made a silly little S8 video the other day and it was a blast! I'll try to post it on youtube sometime soon so we can all have a laugh-
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#13 Matt Pacini

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 05:32 PM

The exposure compensation wheel should turn, although it's pretty stiff, so you won't do it accidentally.
I've had two R10's, and they've both been this way.

I disagree with the above post; I think it's one of the better features of the camera:
You can shoot on "autoexposure", but still underexpose or overexpose the image.
Given the fact that reversal film looks better underexposed, and neg looks better overexposed, it's a necessary feature if you're going to use the autoexposure, which can be handy in S8 filmmaking.

MP
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#14 Rick Palidwor

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 11:40 PM

One of the nice features of the R10 is that the AE compensation dial goes to +2. On most cameras it is only +1. Enjoy.

Rick
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#15 santo

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 08:36 AM

So I've been thinking this morning about the main focus of this thread and have come to the opinion that the Nikon "second claw" is not a claw at all. Rather, it is correctly described as a "passive reverse filming stop pin". Based on the descriptions given, it appears to serve as a lightly spring-loaded stop pin as a cautionary device to prevent the possibility of the film moving forward during reverse filming operations. Or so it seems.

Further to that, examining its position in the film gate and cross-referencing it to a film cart's "pressure plate" (which does not operate as a pressure plate at all in any camera except the Leicina Special due to that camera's unique narrow gate design), reveals that this "passive reverse filming stop pin" would rest on the flat plain of plastic on the "pressure plate", inside the sprocket holes. And because it has a hook, the film is prevented (in theory) from possibly moving forward as it has been curled up inside the film cart -- an action not conceived of in its design.

Obviously, when we read of hamfisted camera butchering idiots "disabling" or "removing" the device, they have done so believing that, because it doesn't move actively that they can observe, it must be broken and is imparing the camera's registration (which it cannot).

This would explain a lot of stupidity I've read on this thing on webboards, if that is indeed how it functions.
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#16 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 08:47 AM

Given the fact that reversal film looks better underexposed, and neg looks better overexposed, it's a necessary feature if you're going to use the autoexposure, which can be handy in S8 filmmaking.

MP


This seems to be the debate for the ages. If your lead actor has blond hair, yeah, it would be better to underexpose rather than overexpose to make sure the hair highlights don't blow out. In many other situations, cheating by overexposing a tad helps to neutralize for the darker parts of the scene.

It really comes down to the contrast in the scene as to whether one can over or underexpose reversal film. The less contrast within the scene, the more one can either over or underexpose as the reversal film will just naturally have better lattitude because of minimal contrast within the scene.

If the scene is contrasty, then one must choose what is more important, the subject in the bright part of the scene, or the the dark part of the scene, and expose accordingly.
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#17 Scot McPhie

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 04:06 PM

Nope. It's not a registration pin, isn't designed as one, and doesn't function as one. This was demonstrated and proven and beaten into a horse skeleton on that other site. As you well know.


As a matter of fact I don't - which is why I phrased my post as a question and not a statement. Why do you assume otherwise? I certainly contribute at filmshooting.com but I don't read everysingle post.

Scot
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