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one shot in SUN another in CLOUD


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#1 Hamid Khozouie

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Posted 04 July 2006 - 04:31 PM

In changing the weather in the middle of one scene....one plan in sun another in cloud.
Do you cut the shooting or you compromise with the producer or it is not important for you ?

THANKS

Edited by hamid khozuie, 04 July 2006 - 04:33 PM.

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#2 Michael Collier

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Posted 04 July 2006 - 10:40 PM

I dont have much grip availible, given the small films I currently work on, and cutting a shoot is rarely an option for me. I try to keep some overheads handy and make all scenes look like their overcast if possible. If the sun goes behind a cloud, it usually is pretty easy to adjust. then just the background is high contrast, which logically makes some sense, as clouds never cover all of the earth. If a hard sun is needed for the look of the scene to work and its overcast, You can use the soft cloud light as fill and blast the frame with hard warm light. The key is just being ready to compensate and watch very closely. Sometimes the you can look and see the clouds will be gone soon, and that might be a good time to get quick inserts or closeups where you may want a slightly softer look.
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#3 G McMahon

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Posted 05 July 2006 - 11:14 AM

Watching the commentary on, ?lord of war? the director mentioned a specific scene the DP cringes every time he sees. This was a case of the elements changing. I didn?t notice it on the first viewing, not until the commentary pointed it out. Not helping you I know, but a fact you may find interesting.
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#4 Michael Nash

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Posted 05 July 2006 - 03:57 PM

In changing the weather in the middle of one scene....one plan in sun another in cloud.
Do you cut the shooting or you compromise with the producer or it is not important for you ?

THANKS


You usually try to come up with a plan to deal with the weather you're expecting for that day, before you shoot your first shot of the scene.

If you know it's going to be partly cloudy you might design a look that's inbetween; for example you might soften hard overhead sunlight with diffusion, and then be prepared to add some fill light if it gets too cloudy.

Sometimes you can simply plan your coverage to leave you the most options. If the wide shot is done in "broken" light with shadows from trees and such, then you can cheat the lighting to be whatever you want for closeups by either adding shadow or hard light wherever you need it for the closeups.

If you don't have the chance to do a proper scout or for some reason get stuck having to deal with light changes that you can't control, then designing the coverage to hide the changing light is really the best you can do. It's easiest to control the light in a tightly framed closeup.
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#5 Bob Hayes

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Posted 05 July 2006 - 08:37 PM

I think people are overly concerned with cloud cover verses direct sun light. If you are shooting in direct sunlight most sophisticated productions soften the direct sunlight for the tighter coverage angles. So they are pretty much creating a look as if the scene was shot in overcast. So really we are only talking about a master shot in direct sunlight verses the passing cloud. If your scene needs bright sunlight I?d be included to fight for it on the masters and silk the close-ups.
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#6 Thomas Burns

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 12:29 PM

I had a telecine colorist complain to me once about how some DP's will ride the iris to maintain exposure on faces as the sun goes in and out of clouds. He said that it's better to let the exposure go--that way he has a better chance "fixing it in post". I'm not sure I really understand why that is. Any ideas?

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#7 Michael Nash

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 03:42 PM

I had a telecine colorist complain to me once about how some DP's will ride the iris to maintain exposure on faces as the sun goes in and out of clouds. He said that it's better to let the exposure go--that way he has a better chance "fixing it in post". I'm not sure I really understand why that is. Any ideas?


Probably because then the colorist has to try to track both the changes in the lighting and the changes in the exposure. Not only might the timing be a little off, but the contrast of the background will change (even though the DP might be trying to preserve density by opening up for a passing cloud). It's a lot easier for a colorist to make one global gamma adjustment and fade up in time with the cloud, than it is to make a lot of minor contrast and gamma adjustments to chase clouds and iris.

There's no right or wrong way to go about compensating for exposure changes, but you do need to consider the whole workflow you're going to be using. With ENG video for example, I know that most stuff is not going to get that kind of attention in color correction so I try to control the image in camera as much as possible.
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#8 Matt Workman

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Posted 09 July 2006 - 09:52 PM

Another problem I've head with this is controlling DOF. I was going for a really shallow DOF on my last shoot but the sun kept popping in and out of the clouds. I was heavingly ND'd and when the sun would go away it would be too dark. Then I'd have to drop some ND and re-adjust. The DOF kept changing.

It went from blaring sun to overcast to downpour in about 45 minutes.
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#9 Michael Nash

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Posted 09 July 2006 - 11:53 PM

Another problem I've head with this is controlling DOF. I was going for a really shallow DOF on my last shoot but the sun kept popping in and out of the clouds. I was heavingly ND'd and when the sun would go away it would be too dark. Then I'd have to drop some ND and re-adjust. The DOF kept changing.


Welcome to cinematography! :D
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