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Movie School Vs. DVD's, audio tapes or books


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#1 John Adolfi

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 12:55 PM

One of the most inspiring books on the subjects was Rebel without a Crew. Rodriguez shows us we CAN do it. Let me get a concensus on training. Books vs. DVD's vs. 4 year degree vs. 1-8 week bootcamp. If you had to do it all over again, today, what would you do?
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#2 Jason Debus

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 02:48 PM

Rebel without a Crew is definitely inspiring, I almost went out and bought the latest DV cam at the time so I could start shooting my first feature immediately!

After reading & some research I came to my senses and realized that my movie wasn't going to look any better than El Mariachi unless I learned the subtleties of making a feature film. I think if it's really your passion then you will use any or all of the above (school, seminars, books, DVDs) to achieve your goals.
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#3 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 03:00 PM

Even if you don't "make it" as a filmmaker, your college degree with a film major still qualifies you for other careers. A well-rounded college education is almost a necessity today. Get your "practical" experience as an intern or freelance during college.

Graduating from high school and jumping right into filmmaking is a high risk venture career-wise, even if you plan to self-educate and take workshops.
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#4 Filip Plesha

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 05:03 PM

One of the most inspiring books on the subjects was Rebel without a Crew. Rodriguez shows us we CAN do it. Let me get a concensus on training. Books vs. DVD's vs. 4 year degree vs. 1-8 week bootcamp. If you had to do it all over again, today, what would you do?



This really doesn't help this thread, but I just wanted to share a few words about how it is over here about these things concerning this issue, it's kind of funny, though I'm glad because of some things..

Over here there is this "allmighty" untouchable film academy which accepts maybe 15 people a year from the whole country for cinematographers, directors etc.
They are VERY traditional and conservative. You have to provide them with traditional darkroom BW enlargements of your own work of art made on BW film and developed strictly by yourself, and they you have to discuss those images with professors.
Then if you are lucky to be accepted, or if your dad is a politician,
there is this professor there, who is kind of known all around the media, and he is the kind of guy that teaches that telecine transfers and video tapes are not films, that only a print is a film, and that a transfer is a reproduction of film. He considers viewing a movie only if you are watching a print, and if you are watching a tape you are seeing like a documentary about the print, which is kind of true, but he is really passionate about this.
Well anyway, the academy is full of these people, who are film purists, and they are responsible for the traditional film mentality that still lives in this country.
Though that mentality doesn't seem to live that much outside the walls of the academy.

Objectivly I think they should lighten up, subjectivley, I share their opinion, but that's just comming from my frustrations in still photography, where I'm pressured from all sides, to repend for my sin of using film.
Well if that's a sin, I'd rather live in photographic hell.
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#5 Igor Trajkovski

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 05:50 PM

Filip Pleisha said

"there is this professor there, who is kind of known all around the media, and he is the kind of guy that teaches that telecine transfers and video tapes are not films, that only a print is a film, and that a transfer is a reproduction of film. He considers viewing a movie only if you are watching a print, and if you are watching a tape you are seeing like a documentary about the print, which is kind of true, but he is really passionate about this. "


You now Fiilip, that remainds me on one episode that i saw
on your HRT1, "Na rubu znanosti" ("On the Edge of Science").
It was dedicated to movies, animation, SFX, VFX..

And there was this old chap, guy philosophing about media,
experiencing the real "authentic" thing from film print only,
something about video, television, touching the camera and
requesting the viewers to touch their screens at the same spot...
blah-blah.... I was like WTH is he talking about?

He was if i remember with mustaches, slightly bold and grey/white in hair.

Are we talking about the same person?
LOL
:)


Regards

Igor
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#6 Filip Plesha

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 05:57 PM

Lol, yea that's the guy. He is a professor on ADU (Akademija dramskih umjetnosti)

He is a cooky guy indeed, but when you think about it, there is some truth in it. When you are watching a tape you are watching a video camera recording a running film tape, so you are watching a video recording of a film tape :)
But then when you are watching a film print, you are also not watching the original, you are watching a photograph of the original.

what I really found wierd when he was in that show is when he started talkign about these "spaces" the movie space and the real space, and the interaction and all that stuff. It got so complicated that in a few minutes I had NO idea what he was talking about. I can imagine students falling asleep on his lectures

Where are you from? Did you watch HRT on satelite or do you live somewhere within the radio range?

edit: oh sorry, didn't see you listed your location.

Edited by Filip Plesha, 06 July 2006 - 06:01 PM.

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#7 Douglas Hunter

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 06:06 PM

Let me get a concensus on training. Books vs. DVD's vs. 4 year degree vs. 1-8 week bootcamp. If you had to do it all over again, today, what would you do?


I attended graduate school at USC and find it hard to imagine that any book or boot camp can match the experience of working in a small group with folks like Bill Fraker, John Hora, Woody Omens or any number of the faculty over the course of one or several semesters. Books can give you a nice overview and be inspiring but experience working with a DP with a great eye, lots of technical knowledge and well defined aesthetic is the best possible training. School is also good because every one is there for the sake of the learning. Working on a professional set even as a PA can be helpful but professional sets are always under time/money pressure and there is not a lot of room for expermentation which is key for understanding why and how lighting methods work or don't work.
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#8 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 06:55 PM

I think you have to do as much learning as possible in as many ways as possible, so it's not a matter of thinking what NOT to learn from, but of taking advantage of any opportunity and method of learning presented to you.

You also have to differentiate learning filmmaking from starting a career in the film industry. You can be self-taught in filmmaking, but you can't get ahead in the industry except through making contacts with people, forging relationships, and sometimes film school is a way of starting that process.
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#9 Igor Trajkovski

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 08:27 PM

Lol, yea that's the guy. He is a professor on ADU (Akademija dramskih umjetnosti)

He is a cooky guy indeed, but when you think about it, there is some truth in it. When you are watching a tape you are watching a video camera recording a running film tape, so you are watching a video recording of a film tape :)
But then when you are watching a film print, you are also not watching the original, you are watching a photograph of the original.

what I really found wierd when he was in that show is when he started talkign about these "spaces" the movie space and the real space, and the interaction and all that stuff. It got so complicated that in a few minutes I had NO idea what he was talking about. I can imagine students falling asleep on his lectures

Where are you from? Did you watch HRT on satelite or do you live somewhere within the radio range?

edit: oh sorry, didn't see you listed your location.



Yeah, even watching film means watching a copy, not the negative, the ORIGINAL. :)

And this "spaces" thing? WTH?

What is the name of this professor?



I am (as you saw) from Macedonia.
Have watched this on cable.


Regards


Igor
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#10 Filip Plesha

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 08:45 PM

You know Croatian/Serbian then? Did you have to learn it in school during Yugoslavia?

about the spaces. I really don't know, I think he was talking about how some movies mixed this real space and movie space when people walk out of the screens, but he seems to be so passionate about it, and I just don't understand what's the big deal.
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#11 Michael Nash

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 08:54 PM

I think you have to do as much learning as possible in as many ways as possible, so it's not a matter of thinking what NOT to learn from, but of taking advantage of any opportunity and method of learning presented to you.

You also have to differentiate learning filmmaking from starting a career in the film industry. You can be self-taught in filmmaking, but you can't get ahead in the industry except through making contacts with people, forging relationships, and sometimes film school is a way of starting that process.


Just expanding on this, to really succeed at anything you need both academic knowledge and practical experience. Relying on either one alone will fail you at some point.

You do whatever it takes to get out there and make films hands-on, study the books and videos, and discuss the material with others more knowledgeable than yourself. You choose the path that you think will work best for you.

FWIW though, I would encourage getting a college education for broader reasons, if it's feasible for you. If nothing else, you often need that time in your life to mature before hitting the "real" world.
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#12 Igor Trajkovski

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 11:03 PM

You know Croatian/Serbian then? Did you have to learn it in school during Yugoslavia?


Yes i do.
When i was primary school back in the 80's we had for 1 or 2 years a subject "Srpsko-Hrvatski".
Of course, main language in school was macedonian.

Tako... Puno mi se spava. Kasno je.
Bog Hrvatska. :)
("Tamo gde je stala moja shtiii-kla")

Regards

Igor Trajkovski
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#13 Bob Hayes

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 12:29 AM

The Buddha says ?A teacher will appear when the student is ready.?
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#14 Rik Andino

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 02:04 AM

FWIW though, I would encourage getting a college education for broader reasons, if it's feasible for you. If nothing else, you often need that time in your life to mature before hitting the "real" world.


You're so right about this...
I don't know why so many kids are in a hurry to grow up...?
Missing the college years can be such a waste for many young people.
It's a very crucial time to learn more about the world and life in general...
Great time to experience and experiment with people of similar age...

Heck some folks might even learn they don't like being filmmakers
And find something else they're passionate about
It happens all the time to many students.

But some people just think they'll do themselves good by skipping the university
Life's not just about getting to your destination faster, sometimes it's about the journey also
And college is a wonderful journey to take and worth the effort.


Just my two&half cents.
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#15 Michael Nash

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 02:07 AM

Heck some folks might even learn they don't like being filmmakers
And find something else they're passionate about
It happens all the time to many students.


I couldn't agree more. One of the most important things you learn in college is about YOURSELF.

But it's always a personal choice. I can't speak for everyone.
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#16 Jiekai Liao

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 08:07 AM

I am in a college now, studying filmmaking. I realized that the academic classes from literature, social sciences, history gave me a much more wider perspective of the world, that is really the purpose of tertiary education. It gives me subject matter that I am interested to discuss in my own filmmaking, point of views that i want to advocate and mature not only as a filmmaker but as a thinker.

jiekai
3rd year student @ the School of the Art Institute of Chicago :-p
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#17 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 08:31 AM

I am in a college now, studying filmmaking. I realized that the academic classes from literature, social sciences, history gave me a much more wider perspective of the world, that is really the purpose of tertiary education. It gives me subject matter that I am interested to discuss in my own filmmaking, point of views that i want to advocate and mature not only as a filmmaker but as a thinker.


This is what it's all about. It's not about having C stands on the course, but developing your eye and attitude to your subjects. It gives you references and the tools to find out the information you need.

You don't even need to do a media/film course, one camera trainee on a production had a MBA.

If you don't want to do 3rd level education at the very least pack back around the world or see how the world works. This will broaden your view and make you ask deeper questions.

You should also remember that it's not what you know, but who you know that is important.

Very often the people you meet at university/college are the people that can give you a leg up when you need it most.
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