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hello everybody! just got a Canon 814!


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#1 SteveParkr

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 09:20 PM

I only went to film school for about a year and only learned the basics and structure on why to make films, but never got to the technical stuff. Learned how to use a Bolex, but that stuff was 16mm and rolls. Before I got this camera on eBay I knew that they were to be cartridges. So, before I buy some film, what type of film do you recommend? Where can I buy? How do I edit (programs) on a computer? The camera I got didn't come with a manual, so does anybody know where I can fancy one? My friend and I want to shoot an experimental film in a subway train. thing is, we're not sure if the light sources are sufficient. my book is always talking special light sources, but there are no outlets in train carts. What kind of film can we use in low light situations? thank you
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#2 ken wood

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 10:45 AM

I only went to film school for about a year and only learned the basics and structure on why to make films, but never got to the technical stuff. Learned how to use a Bolex, but that stuff was 16mm and rolls. Before I got this camera on eBay I knew that they were to be cartridges. So, before I buy some film, what type of film do you recommend? Where can I buy? How do I edit (programs) on a computer? The camera I got didn't come with a manual, so does anybody know where I can fancy one? My friend and I want to shoot an experimental film in a subway train. thing is, we're not sure if the light sources are sufficient. my book is always talking special light sources, but there are no outlets in train carts. What kind of film can we use in low light situations? thank you

I bought same S8, too. Here's url for manual: http://www.mondofoto...s/canon814.html

I just bought 2 carts of 64T from Dwaynes photo for $14 US. Best price I have found. And, they will process for $9US per card plus ship.($5 + 25cents each add'l) Very good service.
You will love that S8.
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#3 SteveParkr

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 11:31 AM

what's good about Kodachrome, the one that Dwayne sells? what about the modern stocks like Vision2 on S8. how do they compare? Also, can the 814 record steady slick lip movement or will it look like a dubbed martial arts chinese movie?
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#4 SteveParkr

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 12:07 PM

also, regarding Gray Cards

are they beneficial for telecine and color correction? or is it a on the spot (when shooting) technique? i never made it far with any lighting courses. :(
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#5 Erdwolf_TVL

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Posted 15 July 2006 - 02:43 AM

I only went to film school for about a year and only learned the basics and structure on why to make films, but never got to the technical stuff. Learned how to use a Bolex, but that stuff was 16mm and rolls. Before I got this camera on eBay I knew that they were to be cartridges. So, before I buy some film, what type of film do you recommend? Where can I buy? How do I edit (programs) on a computer? The camera I got didn't come with a manual, so does anybody know where I can fancy one? My friend and I want to shoot an experimental film in a subway train. thing is, we're not sure if the light sources are sufficient. my book is always talking special light sources, but there are no outlets in train carts. What kind of film can we use in low light situations? thank you


Shooting film in a subway is a bad idea... Be sure to get permission first, otherwise you will be told to move along or arrested.
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#6 Andy_Alderslade

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 12:36 PM

also, regarding Gray Cards

are they beneficial for telecine and color correction? or is it a on the spot (when shooting) technique? i never made it far with any lighting courses. :(


If you are going to be shooting Reversal film (i.e. Echtacrome 64t, Plus X, Tri X and even old roles of Kodacrome) for home projection a Grey Card is unnecessary as nobody will be colour correcting the footage.

If you are planning to shoot negative film (i.e. Vision 2 200T and Vision 2 500T) which you will not be able to project at home, but in theory they are better suited for telecine to a digital format then maybe then a grey card is usefull. However some DPs are dead against Grey Cards feeling that during telecine the colourist grades the scene to the card rather than intelligently intepreting the footage. Other DPs manage to use grey cards in their favour, so it comes to a personal preference.

If you are planning to use the internal light meter of the camera (which is perhaps a little unwise, it would be better to use a handheld incident meter) but if you insist on using the internal meter maybe setting exposure of a grey card filling the frame will give the most reliable method af achieveing a good exposure .


With regards to Kodachrome and film stocks, its probably best to try shooting and projecting several rolls of Reversal either Echtacrome 64t (which I don't dislike as much as others here do) or/and some PlusX/Tri X to get used to the camera and experimenting with exposure levels. Maybe then try the Vision stocks (which I find to grainy in super 8) and with the extra cost of telecine.

As for sync sound, the camera is noisy so will be need to be blimped in some way, also the camera is not crystal synced so it will drift, so it recomended you keep dialougue to a minimum and record many wild tracks of the actors saying their lines, as a safety net for latter.

Edited by Andy_Alderslade, 16 July 2006 - 12:38 PM.

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#7 SteveParkr

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 11:02 AM

Thank you very much for the advice! I just purchased HiCon B&W film ASA10 and Vision2 500T. Will the 814 automatically adjust the meter readings for me for exposure?
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#8 Andy_Alderslade

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 11:56 AM

Thank you very much for the advice! I just purchased HiCon B&W film ASA10 and Vision2 500T. Will the 814 automatically adjust the meter readings for me for exposure?


I doubt it will expose the 500T properly, so you may have to use a seperate meter. Expect it to be quite grainy also.
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#9 SteveParkr

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 12:06 PM

thank you Mr. Andy. Regarding the ASA10, when I load the cartridge, should everything adjust automatically for exposure? Any books you recommend regarding film stocks, latitude, lighting, cinematography in general? I'd like to know the general idea behind film exposure and types, but I don't want to make it my main focus since in the future I'll hire a DP for any shooting. thank you
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#10 Andy_Alderslade

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 01:50 PM

I don't know of any currently available high contrast black and white stocks with an ASA10, maybe somebody here is familiar with it? If its an older stock maybe there's a small possibility it will work with the notching system, however if it is high contrast stock it would be better (more accurate) to use a handheld incident meter (like a Sekonic Studio Deluxe which are reliable and cheap) as it is less likely to be tricked by light and dark areas of the frame than the camera's internal meter.

With a seperate light meter you will also be able to check if the camera is exposing those films correctly or not, for instances when you want to 'run and gun' with the camera relying on the internal meter.

Edited by Andy_Alderslade, 18 July 2006 - 01:51 PM.

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#11 SteveParkr

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 02:00 PM

I don't know of any currently available high contrast black and white stocks with an ASA10, maybe somebody here is familiar with it? If its an older stock maybe there's a small possibility it will work with the notching system, however if it is high contrast stock it would be better (more accurate) to use a handheld incident meter (like a Sekonic Studio Deluxe which are reliable and cheap) as it is less likely to be tricked by light and dark areas of the frame than the camera's internal meter.

With a seperate light meter you will also be able to check if the camera is exposing those films correctly or not, for instances when you want to 'run and gun' with the camera relying on the internal meter.


thanks, Andy. Just acquired the manual for the 814. It says that the camera accepts ASA16 to ASA250 for daylight type film. If I can't afford a manual Sekonic for the time being then what would be the best advice you could give me regarding the internal cam. meter and how to compesate the general read? Sorry that I don't understand the logistics, but from ASA16 to ASA10, is it really that much off for me to worry about? Wouldn't the camera, more or less, still try and determine the right exposure for me off by 6? My understanding is to treat this ASA10 as if it were ASA16. There's this place called Pro8mm that offer HiCon B&W ASA10 film, it's a new stock. thanks again.

Edited by SteveParkr, 18 July 2006 - 02:01 PM.

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#12 Robert Hughes

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 02:16 PM

This thread smells funny. A guy who's been to film school for a year doesn't know what Kodachrome is? But buys high contrast b&w film from Pro8? Is somebody playing the fool?
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#13 Chad Stockfleth

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 02:29 PM

If you are worried about shooting in the low-light train depot, why are you buying the slowest speed film you can find? Treating the ASA 10 as ASA 16 will give you a bit of underexposure, if you can't get a light meter, prepare to have a couple of rolls not turn out the way you expect until you can predict a little better how your internal meter will react.

As for the comment about not wanting to learn too much about cinematography because you'll hire a DP later, that's just stupid. If nothing else learn all you can so you don't sound like a nitwit talking to your future DP's.
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#14 SteveParkr

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 02:38 PM

This thread smells funny. A guy who's been to film school for a year doesn't know what Kodachrome is? But buys high contrast b&w film from Pro8? Is somebody playing the fool?



I got this cool source from studentfilmakers about S8 films:

http://www.studentfi...ticle_528.shtml

I went with the HiCon and Vision2.

Btw, my first year of film school which was a four year program...I started with this:

History of Cinema
Aesthetics of Cinema
Development and Preproduction
Screenwriting I
Production 1

plus gen. ed's. I didnt get to use a Bolex 16mm until my second semester and I worked with rolls and reversal film, so I really didnt gain significant knowledge with cameras or other types of film. Plus the only film I used at school was B&W. We also had to edit on a cutting block. I'm not a pro like you, jerk! :angry:

If you are worried about shooting in the low-light train depot, why are you buying the slowest speed film you can find? Treating the ASA 10 as ASA 16 will give you a bit of underexposure, if you can't get a light meter, prepare to have a couple of rolls not turn out the way you expect until you can predict a little better how your internal meter will react.

As for the comment about not wanting to learn too much about cinematography because you'll hire a DP later, that's just stupid. If nothing else learn all you can so you don't sound like a nitwit talking to your future DP's.


thanks for the reply! Well I do plan on going back to film school. I didn't acquire those credits for nothing! I was just speaking in general. In about a year or two I'll apply again. I just don't have the funds at the moment. Who knows which school to apply to so I'm geeked! I'd like to play around with film for the time being so that I can be prepared when I go back! that's all. :) I purchased the Vision2 500T because it's for interior use. I'll shoot that in the subway. The HiCon was for exterior shooting. thanks
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#15 Andy_Alderslade

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 03:05 PM

Be carefull of Pro8mm when the're good, the're good.... when the're bad, the're auful.

Plus they are expensive.

Infact the price of a second hand analogue Sekonic light meter will probably be less than the money it costs to process and telecine one cartidge of that film you have bought. Plus, providing you check it remains acurate every now and again it will serve you through many years of super8 and 16mm shooting.

The Hi/Con film has more than likely been cut down and put in the cartridges by Pro 8mm so more than likely (unless the situation has changed) it won't have any ASA notches at all and the camera won't know what to do... at all.

My recomendation would be to put those two roles of film you bought in the fridge for the time being and buy yourself a few roles of Ectachrome 64T (if you're bored of black and white) from your cheapest source (probably Kodak) go down the park, go sight seeing, visit your friends and have fun shooting with it, using the automatic exposure. Get it processed with a cheap and reliable lab, borrow a projector and see how it came out. At least that way you learn how well the camera and the lightmeter works. When you finally get a light meter buy another role of 64T and see how that comes out.

Read up as much as you can here and also www.onsuper8.org.

Best of luck!
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