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An Inconvenient Truth


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#1 Richard Boddington

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 06:06 PM

Al Gore spends the whole movie telling us how bad global warming is, but he fails to point out the benefits.

Such as trees growing in Antarctica, have a look:

http://news.yahoo.co...ca_060712173026

This will be great! By the time we run out of trees to cut down in North America we can just cut them down at the south pole and use those.

What other benefits of global warming did he fail to point out?

R,
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#2 Chad Stockfleth

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 06:41 PM

I'm quite pleased about global warming. Kentucky having been land-locked for centuries will now have a beautiful view of the ocean! I'm going to learn how to surf!
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#3 Michael Collier

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 08:19 PM

In the decade I have spent in Alaska I have seen a very noticable decline in the severity of winters. We used to have 2 solid weeks below -10, now we will have intermitten days that go below -10, and I haven't seen a -35 day in a good long time.

Of course, I doubt that any good things would offset the negative aspects of global warming.

add to that there is new evidence that increased CO2 levels in the ocean errodes shellfish's shells and makes it harder for calcifiers to survive. At least with that science, its an easy to prove theory where as global warming has been hard to convince certain people (republicans mostly)
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#4 timHealy

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 11:38 PM

After seeing "Gore's movie", go see "Who Killed the Electric Car".

The US is suppose to be this great place for innovation and progress, unless you want to change the status quo.

Then forget about it.
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#5 Matt Pacini

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Posted 17 July 2006 - 06:17 PM

Richard, don't you know that any change of any kind is bad, and that if mankind does anything it's unnatural?
You know;
beaver makes dam = natural event, creates more diversity of wildlife because of the extra water, etc..
Humans make dam = unnatrual raping of the landscape.

Also, don't you know that all those history books talking about ice ages, and past periods of greenhouse climate (like when the dinosaurs lived) are all a huge Republican conspiracy?
Everyone knows that the temperature of the planet has never wavered.

As for Al Gore's constantly saying "the debate is over", there's actually quite a bit of scientific debate still going on, and no, it's not "republicans mostly", it's more like "climatologists, mostly"
Here's a good sampling of scientists on BOTH side of the issue. Nice to see an actual balanced set of viewpoints for a change.
http://www.livescien...al_warming.html

Speaking of propaganda, I'm getting sick of hearing how big a hit this film is. It's only grossed 17 mil:
http://www.boxoffice...enienttruth.htm
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#6 Kai.w

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 02:47 AM

Richard, don't you know that any change of any kind is bad, and that if mankind does anything it's unnatural?
You know;
beaver makes dam = natural event, creates more diversity of wildlife because of the extra water, etc..
Humans make dam = unnatrual raping of the landscape.

Also, don't you know that all those history books talking about ice ages, and past periods of greenhouse climate (like when the dinosaurs lived) are all a huge Republican conspiracy?
Everyone knows that the temperature of the planet has never wavered.


What an offtopic BS!!!

Really, outside the US nobody denies it. And even there... not really. I hate the word "balanced" cause it implies that if you state something clearly without any "but", then you're imbalanced.
Go
http://www.realclimate.org
there you get an idea.

Plus your absolutely ridiculous argument about the climate changes in the ancient past does not consider the fact that nowadays we've got 6.5 billion humans on earth living in highly complex and fragile structures.
What a joke...

Sorry for being offtopic myself. Delete post if necessary. I just could not stand this nonsense...

-k
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#7 Dan Goulder

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 11:00 AM

Everyone knows that the temperature of the planet has never wavered.

Are you sure you want to be passing off such speculative statements as being unassailable truth by attributing them to "everyone"?
For centuries, "everyone" knew the Earth was flat, too.
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#8 Matt Pacini

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 01:56 PM

Hmmm, ever heard of humor and sarcasm?

The point I was making, is that all this global warming hysteria, is over a 1 degree increase in the last 100 years.
There have been countless ice ages and periods much warmer than this in the past, with no help whatsoever from anything that humans did, but this is totally ignored by global warming phobics, as if the planet COULD NOT POSSIBLY WAVER IN TEMPERATURE ON IT'S OWN!
So, assuming that we're causing it now, is not at all supported by history, get it?

This is just the last, in a very long line of "environmental catastophe's caused by mankind" that after more study, were found to be natural occurances.

Here's just a few off the top of my head;
1970's: Global COOLING - I'm not kidding, there were reports that we were going into an ice age in the 70's. Google it.
1980's: Cyclamates - They were going to poison all our drinking water and kill us all. Nothing happened.
1980's: Acid rain: Remember this one? It was going to kill all our forests. It was found to be a natural occurrance. That's why you don't hear about it anymore.
1990's: Ozone hole. Notice you don't hear anything about this anymore? That's because it was found to be caused primarily by sunspots. Now you don't hear about it at all. Doesn't that make you wonder?

Google: "global warming" and include the names of all the planets in our solar system except Earth. Guess what? There is global warming going on in ALL THE PLANETS!
So.... either the SUN is causing global warming on ALL the planets, or somehow, magically, mankind is also causing global warming on Mars, Jupiter, Mercury, etc.

Edited by Matt Pacini, 18 July 2006 - 01:57 PM.

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#9 Matt Frank

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 04:55 PM

Hmmm, ever heard of humor and sarcasm?

The point I was making, is that all this global warming hysteria, is over a 1 degree increase in the last 100 years.
There have been countless ice ages and periods much warmer than this in the past, with no help whatsoever from anything that humans did, but this is totally ignored by global warming phobics, as if the planet COULD NOT POSSIBLY WAVER IN TEMPERATURE ON IT'S OWN!
So, assuming that we're causing it now, is not at all supported by history, get it?

This is just the last, in a very long line of "environmental catastophe's caused by mankind" that after more study, were found to be natural occurances.

Here's just a few off the top of my head;
1970's: Global COOLING - I'm not kidding, there were reports that we were going into an ice age in the 70's. Google it.
1980's: Cyclamates - They were going to poison all our drinking water and kill us all. Nothing happened.
1980's: Acid rain: Remember this one? It was going to kill all our forests. It was found to be a natural occurrance. That's why you don't hear about it anymore.
1990's: Ozone hole. Notice you don't hear anything about this anymore? That's because it was found to be caused primarily by sunspots. Now you don't hear about it at all. Doesn't that make you wonder?

Google: "global warming" and include the names of all the planets in our solar system except Earth. Guess what? There is global warming going on in ALL THE PLANETS!
So.... either the SUN is causing global warming on ALL the planets, or somehow, magically, mankind is also causing global warming on Mars, Jupiter, Mercury, etc.



You should go see the movie, he talks about a lot of the things that supposedly "aren't talked about any more"

I am not going to argue global warming with you as you have already made up your mind, but tell me this. If we all did decide to live a cleaner life style what would be the harm? Even if you don't believe in Global Warming, wouldn't you rather have cleaner air and water? I don't understand why there are two sides to this issue. It requires only a modest ammount of effort to do better, why not do it?
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#10 Dan Goulder

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 05:03 PM

Hmmm, ever heard of humor and sarcasm?

Yes, Matt, I have...and you weren't displaying any.
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#11 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 05:31 PM

If we all did decide to live a cleaner life style what would be the harm?

That is a really good way to look at it, no matter which side of the issue you are on.
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#12 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 06:07 PM

The point I was making, is that all this global warming hysteria, is over a 1 degree increase in the last 100 years.


What's actually happened is there has been a much greater shift of around 5 degree temperature change that has been masked by CO2. The earth is warming up because of civilization and industrialization but the CO2 in the upper atmosphere is actually keeping in some heat while simultaneously deflecting some of the suns rays back into space that used to get through. So far it all adds up to only a one degree climate shift but it's a change from what was before and one that could radically implode at any time.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you were running audio tone through an audio mixing board and then into a recording deck, would you set the incoming levels on the mixing board at 2 (out of 10), then set the level on the recording deck at 8 (out of ten), in essence one might be able to produce a VU meter reading that shows zero throughout the system, yet the levels were all out of skew at every stage and it's a disaster waiting to happen the moment one tries to actually audio mix with that set-up.

The same could be said with what's going on with CO2, it's become this unknown quantity that appears to be balancing everything out for the moment, but it's a much more unreliable and unknown system than what preceded it.

If we all did decide to live a cleaner life style what would be the harm? Even if you don't believe in Global Warming, wouldn't you rather have cleaner air and water? I don't understand why there are two sides to this issue. It requires only a modest ammount of effort to do better, why not do it?


The problem is you used the word "we all", which is mythical, there will never be a consensus on anything. There was a group of Republicans and Democrats in the Calfornia Legislature that wanted to forget what political side they were on and they wanted to join forces and just come up with great solutions, but whenever they met they would later be harrassed by their own party for meeting with the other side. They actually tried to meet in secret just so they could avoid the negative scrutiny they were getting from their own parties! Some of these brave souls have becjome so disillusioned with politics they don't believe in the process the way they did before.

---------------------------------------------

Did you know that in 1987 cars got better gas mileage overall than cars made in 2007. Although cars today are much more fuel efficient than 20 years ago, that efficiency has been used to make cars bigger and with more muscle rather than with higher MPG.

If the government "demands" it's citizens only drive fuel efficient cars, some will call that fascism.

We can joke and ridicule about those who believe they have 50 virgins waiting for them in heaven, yet in this life, we are just as guilty of excess because we claim it is our right to waste resources that should be conserved so the next several generations will have it available to them.
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#13 Mike Welle

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 06:53 PM

Just to clarify, global warming is not a debatable issue but honest to badness truth--it is actually occuring. People who deny there is global warming are denying the truth--that is why the movie is called "An Inconvenient Truth." People who are on the side of "global warming is not occuring, or is a myth" are flat out, wrong. If you want proof, go see the movie.

Mike Welle

That is a really good way to look at it, no matter which side of the issue you are on.


Edited by Mike Welle, 18 July 2006 - 06:55 PM.

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#14 Matt Pacini

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 03:16 PM

Well, your post above confirms my view that for many people, their political viewpoints are excatly like religious beliefs.
EVERYTHING is debatable, to an open-minded person or society.
The fact so many people on thoe one side of this issue are saying it's not debatable, is basically a way to silence any open thought on the matter; it's easier to silence the opposition than have to defend your position. In other words, soft censorship, once again rears its' ugly head.
The earth being flat was once "non-debatable truth", and those of us who don't believe in the global warming hype are being branded heretics, and silenced accordingly with statementts of "it's not debatable, it's absolute truth". Uh huh. Funny, that's exactly what hardcore religious fanatics say to justify their beliefs.

And yes, I'm all for cleaner air, and I'm very much someone who practices recycling, etc., but personal habits are not what are at stake here;
It's the international demand that we (the west) nearly, or completely ruin our economies trying to change something that is unchangeable and would have happened anyway, even if humans never existed. (again, see the 4 million URL's that show up on Google when you search for global warming on OTHER planets).

One Mt. St. Helens size volcano puts out more pollutants and greenhouse gases than the entire contribution of mankind since the beginning of time - and we have one of these every 2-4 years somewhere on the planet. That is so much more likely to be causing this than we are, but it's sooooo much more fun to blame human consumption, isn't it?
Again, there's been a ONE DEGREE raise in temperatures in the last 100 years.
That's what all this hoopla is all about.
It's happened often in the past, it's happened worse in the past, and it will continue to happen until the end of time, regardless of whether or not humans even exist - just as before.
It's the utmost height of arrogance for humans to think we have that much of an effect on things. The planet is much more powerful than we are, and will continue to be so.
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#15 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 03:27 PM

Well, at least the project I led at Kodak to develop Particle Transfer Roller (PTR) film cleaning technology has helped reduce the depletion of the protective stratospheric ozone layer: :)

http://digitalconten...k_receives_epa/

PTR film cleaning is now used by almost all motion picture labs, transfer houses, IMAX theatres, and many regular theatres, greatly reducing the use of solvents for film cleaning.

Al Gore even mentioned the success of efforts like this in reducing depletion of the ozone layer. B)
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#16 Daniël Clays

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 03:32 PM

EVERYTHING is debatable, to an open-minded person or society.


You're an open-minded person? That's pretty ironic.
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#17 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 04:16 PM

EVERYTHING is debatable, to an open-minded person or society.

Again, there's been a ONE DEGREE raise in temperatures in the last 100 years.

Well, if the temperature has raised, which you confirm, then global warming IS happening, right? The discussion is not whether global warming exists, but rather, WHY it exists. So the temperature rise isn't really debateable afterall it would seem, since everyone seems to agree that is HAS risen.
I'm really not trying to jump into the discussion here. I just wanted to point that out.
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#18 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 11:28 PM

Well, if the temperature has raised, which you confirm, then global warming IS happening, right? The discussion is not whether global warming exists, but rather, WHY it exists. So the temperature rise isn't really debateable afterall it would seem, since everyone seems to agree that is HAS risen.
I'm really not trying to jump into the discussion here. I just wanted to point that out.


The first six months of this year were the hottest on record for most of the United States.

http://today.reuters...;archived=False
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#19 Richard Boddington

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 12:27 AM

This is an interesting discussion. I assume every one knows my original post was a joke?

Obviously there are no benefits to cutting down trees in Antarctica :)

Any way....carry on all with the debate over global warming. I'm in Canada & we are really the worst offenders on the planet, yes even more so than Americans. We pollute considerably more per capita than Americans do, a fact Canadians choose to ignore.

Has any one seen the keys to my Hummer? Oh no worries I'll drive my SUV.

Thanks
R,
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#20 Jon-Hebert Barto

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 08:42 PM

Any way....carry on all with the debate over global warming. I'm in Canada & we are really the worst offenders on the planet, yes even more so than Americans. We pollute considerably more per capita than Americans do, a fact Canadians choose to ignore.

Has any one seen the keys to my Hummer? Oh no worries I'll drive my SUV.

Thanks
R,



No way, Boddington!! Americans are number one !!!! :lol: :D USA, USA, USA!!!! (sarcasm...)
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