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HVX200 or JVC GY-HD100U for FILM LOOK


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#1 neil harris

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 11:13 AM

Hi ALL!

I have seen some good footage from the HVX200 using Nikon lense and I like what I saw

1) I would like to know which is better to get a Film look HVX200 or JVC GY-HD100U.

2) If I pick the HVX200 do I need a lense adapter ( Does it really improve the quality)

If so which adapter and which lense would be a good bet.

3) If I pick JVC GY-HD100U which lense should i get


Cheers

Neil Harris

Montreal, Canada

Edited by neil harris, 24 July 2006 - 11:13 AM.

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#2 Paul Wizikowski

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 11:59 AM

Hi ALL!

I have seen some good footage from the HVX200 using Nikon lense and I like what I saw

1) I would like to know which is better to get a Film look HVX200 or JVC GY-HD100U.

2) If I pick the HVX200 do I need a lense adapter ( Does it really improve the quality)

If so which adapter and which lense would be a good bet.

3) If I pick JVC GY-HD100U which lense should i get
Cheers

Neil Harris

Montreal, Canada


This is a subjective question. Personally I have shot with both and I have chosen to go with the HVX. I have seen images side by side of the two as well as the Sony Z1 and in real time the differences are negligeble. Only when slowed down or blown up do the differences real show up. However since neither is a practice I reccommend because video degrades so fast so quick.

Anyways there are other reasons to choose a format, most notably your post production pipeline. Do you want to shoot on tape or on P2 cards. Both have advantages. P2 = instant access to footage. Tape = archivable for future use/reuse.

As for a film look. In my opinion the bigger film look is not about gamma and 24P, though they have their rightful place. Again this is just my opinion but to me the bigger asset to fim is the Depth of field. That shallow DoF is what video really lacks. That and the spinning glass from the adapter add more to the look of film than anything else. So that said you need a lens adaptor in order to mount film lenses to either of these cameras. P&S Technik makes one. Its the most commonly used one. They make one for the larger 2/3" CCD cameras and they also make a mini one for the smaller cameras. That said they really like it, its pricey. A generic brand version of it is made by Redrock. Thats who I would recommend for the budgets you likly use. There are lots of adapters for this adapter to allow various types of lenses. Check it out for yourself here http://www.redrockmicro.com

Hope that helps.
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#3 neil harris

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 06:15 AM

Hi Paul

Thanks for your reply

for flexibility and best results (film look and possibility to transfer to 35 mm)

1) HVX200 + M2 Cinema Lens Adapter + lens

OR

2) JVC GY-HD100U + just a better lens than the one on the JVC GY-HD100U

you said you picked HVX why?

Also if its just a question of taste by buying the JVC GY-HD100U i save the M2 adapter cost right?

In regards of TAPE or P2 which will produce highest quality

Cheers

Neil Harris

Montreal, Canada

Edited by neil harris, 26 July 2006 - 06:17 AM.

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#4 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 09:02 AM

You should look at: http://www.showreel....article.php?172
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#5 Paul Wizikowski

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 10:35 AM

Hi Paul

Thanks for your reply

for flexibility and best results (film look and possibility to transfer to 35 mm)

1) HVX200 + M2 Cinema Lens Adapter + lens

OR

2) JVC GY-HD100U + just a better lens than the one on the JVC GY-HD100U

you said you picked HVX why?

Also if its just a question of taste by buying the JVC GY-HD100U i save the M2 adapter cost right?

In regards of TAPE or P2 which will produce highest quality

Cheers

Neil Harris

Montreal, Canada




Well, I'm not one to argue with people that know more than I do. The article linked by Brian is a great source for information. I still go back to camera choice being a subjective one. Personally, I think you would be happy with either camera but either one would still require the Redrock M2 adapter to allow you to use lenses with shallow DoF.

In short their recommendation for film look and potential transfer to 35mm the JVC is the camera to use. It shoots true 24P and has more lines of resolution than the HVX.

Finally I'll say this, use what can you get your hands on. Don't get so caught up on getting the perfect gear that you never end up shooting your work.

Good Luck
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#6 neil harris

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 12:15 PM

Thank you Brian great article!

Thank you Paul!

I am just trying to do my homework read a lot, ask questions here to you guys

It really help making the final choice. a agree with you Paul "camera choice being a subjective one"

what I do is keep score on like and dislike of professional (and the reason why)

At the and one camera will come on top

i will buy IT and Shoot

Cheers

Neil

PS For Now JVC GY-HD100U + P+S Technik Mini35 + Nikon lenses sound like THE PLAN

Edited by neil harris, 26 July 2006 - 12:16 PM.

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#7 Olivier Vanaschen

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 02:02 PM

Hello Neil,

my name is Olivier Vanaschen, I'm part of DP team called "the black sheep". We worked a lot with MINI35 adapters, we shot a short about two years ago with one of the first homemade MINI35 adapters, the short is called "Marla." ( http://www.marlathemovie.com ). We've since then continued to develop our own adapter and tested about every possible camera/adapter configuration.

I personaly wouldn't recommend the JVC because I really dislike its look but that's maybe just a matter of taste. The HVX200 is a great camera but I do prefer the Canon H1. The sharpness, color and overall resolution is just superb. It's also easier to use this camera handheld. I used the PAL version and the 25p mode was very convincing. The HD-SDI output is just amazing, I really would like to test recording to the Wafian uncompressed recorder ( http://www.cineform.com ).

Here's a link to a music video with directed and shot with a Canon H1/P+S MINI35/CookeS4 lenses: http://www.theblacks...taintedlove.mov

Nikon lenses would be really good, we use a set with our homemade adapters. It's fully possible to gear them so you can use a standard follow-focus,... The new Zeiss in Nikon mount should be amazing too.

The best is to test the configuration you have in mind in some kind of real-life production setup because a MINI35 adapter system can quickly become big/heavy and quite difficult to operate.

If you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer them.


Cheers,

Olivier
www.theblacksheep.be
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#8 Danielito

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 05:41 AM

In short their recommendation for film look and potential transfer to 35mm the JVC is the camera to use. It shoots true 24P and has more lines of resolution than the HVX.



I don't understand this really. The HVX does proHD but the JVC does HD. So why should the JVC have better resolution as the HVX ?
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#9 Paul Wizikowski

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 10:47 AM

In short their recommendation for film look and potential transfer to 35mm the JVC is the camera to use. It shoots true 24P and has more lines of resolution than the HVX.
I don't understand this really. The HVX does proHD but the JVC does HD. So why should the JVC have better resolution as the HVX ?



The difference lies in format versus lines of resolution. The article was referring to lines of resolution in stating that the JVC's chips could see and therefore record to tape more lines of resolution. The format of recording has more to do with how its encoded/compressed onto tape. So it too is very important. The fact that the guys in the article didn't mention much about that, even though they took all their images into post and could see the final image that the format wrote to tape leads me to think that the differences in proHD and HD are minimal. The name DVCPro HD is just Panasonics name for their HDV codec. Which codec is superior remains to be debated for now I would just consider ProHD and JVC's HD fairly equivelent.
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#10 Nathan Chaszeyka

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 11:53 AM

You should look at: http://www.showreel....article.php?172



The problem is that with every DP there is a different preference. The 4400 is using the HVX on the show now where the F900's won't work

http://www.chrisoben...200_dcs_web.pdf
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#11 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 11:57 AM

The name DVCPro HD is just Panasonics name for their HDV codec.


HDV and DVCPROHD are different things.
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#12 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 12:07 PM

The problem is that with every DP there is a different preference. The 4400 is using the HVX on the show now where the F900's won't work

http://www.chrisoben...200_dcs_web.pdf


Absolutely, people are using these smaller cameras on a whole range of different productions in ways that are appropriate for each individual production.

Any reviews I've seen to date on these cameras don't point to any one camera being way out ahead, they've each got pluses and minuses. It's a case of whatever works for you and the production you're working on.
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