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#1 Arni Heimir

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 06:23 PM

Why on earth does it cost so much more to rent a panavision over an arri?
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#2 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 06:48 PM

Hi,

The sarcastic in me wants to say you're paying for the flight cases - Panavision gear comes with a separate gold-plated box for every nut bolt and screw, mainly to give over-large IATSE crews something to do with their otherwise unfilled hours.

However I suspect you're probably comparing incomparable gear. I don't know much about Panavision kit, for the aforementioned reason, but I suspect like Arri they have "really whizzy expensive cameras" and "really ancient boat-anchors" just like anyone else. Be sure you're not comparing whizzy to anchor.

Phil
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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 06:51 PM

Here in Los Angeles, Panavision and Arri are about the same: at the low end are the Panaflex Gold and GII versus and Arri-BL3, BL4, BL-Evolution, then the mid-range is the Panaflex Platinum versus an Arri-535B, and then at the higher-end is a Panaflex Millenium versus an Arricam ST.

So you have to compare apples to apples, not a Panaflex Millenium versus an Arri-BL4.

Truth is that when the productions I shoot send out bids, Panavision usually comes in cheaper.
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#4 Arni Heimir

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 07:05 PM

The sarcastic in me wants to say you're paying for the flight cases - Panavision gear comes with a separate gold-plated box for every nut bolt and screw, mainly to give over-large IATSE crews something to do with their otherwise unfilled hours.
Phil


I once had the pleasure of speaking with a cinematographer Remi Adefarasin and I asked him which brand he goes for, Arri or Panavision. "Being a European I tend to go for less maintenance: Arriflex" So, know I understand what you are referring to.

I saw that a panavision outlet rents out a Arricam St for 2300 a day but a Panavsion XL for 3500 a day.
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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 07:26 PM

I once had the pleasure of speaking with a cinematographer Remi Adefarasin and I asked him which brand he goes for, Arri or Panavision. "Being a European I tend to go for less maintenance: Arriflex" So, know I understand what you are referring to.

I saw that a panavision outlet rents out a Arricam St for 2300 a day but a Panavsion XL for 3500 a day.


Panavision comes in more bits and pieces, more cases, etc. When I was doing small features with small, inexperienced crews, I felt a little safer with an Arri-BL4 for them to handle, but it doesn't make much of a difference if you have experienced AC's.

The Arricam LT is more the equivalent of a Panaflex XL.
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#6 Max Jacoby

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 07:54 PM

Which countries did your quotes come from?

Arri Rental (Germany) give much better deals than Panavision or any other rental company in France for instance, hence why in Luxembourg we always go with Arri.
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#7 Richard Boddington

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 08:50 PM

What I find hilarious is that Panavision Toronto charges in US dollars!!

Not a huge difference today, but still, an extra .14 per dollar is an extra .14 per dollar.

I would love to shoot my next project with a Panavision camera, but mainly so that when I start an "In Production" thread on this forum, people will look at the pics and say "Oooooo he's using Panavision." :)

I guess for now I'll have to stick with my Arri.

R,
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#8 Eric Steelberg ASC

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 09:10 PM

It's a myth Panavision costs more. The reason is that , generally, they are so big and have such a large inventory so they can let stuff go out for competitive rates in order to keep their clients happy. Not once in 8 years have they ever not been able to beat or meet another quote for COMPARABLE gear. That being said, I haven't had them compete with anyone else here in LA because I just call them first, knowing they will make it work for me. So my loyalty to them has paid off and they show their appreciation.

Regarding reliability, I've had more problems with Moviecams and 535s (on jobs with camera deals already) than I have had with any Panaflex model. But like David mentioned, the amount of accessories can be slightly daunting for a green assistant.

Frequently on commercials, the production company will give me a audible groan when they ask which camera house I use...usually based on rumors. By the time the job shoots, the PM ALWAYS makes a point...every single time..."tell Panavision thanks..they really helped us out."

I like their gear, but most importantly, I like their people and support. I like knowing I can go anywhere in the world and have support and gear I am used to and can count on.

I'm not sure what it's like with the Panavision agents around the world, but in LA and the rest of US the experience has always been great. I encourage you, if you want to give them a try, to call and introduce yourself and see if they can help you out.

Oh and printed "catalogue" rates mean nothing.
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#9 Travis Cline

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 09:26 PM

I second that notion. Panavision always works with you, they even give you cameras for free or near free. They give you what's available or what they can, but what really impresses me about Panavision is that they care about you and your liking their equipment. I can't tell you how many times I've had a problem with a camera, something non-panavision, and the rental house tries to tell me its operator error. Without even seeing the camera they'll try and say that there's no way its a problem with their camera. That's not a shot at Arri or moviecam or any other camera because they are quite fine, but you can rely on Panavision to believe you and do whatever they can to fix the problem. That's my two cents worth anyway.

Travis
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#10 Kevin Zanit

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 02:50 AM

I have to second what Eric said, Panavision has by far earned my loyalty.
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#11 Max Jacoby

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 05:41 AM

All I can say is that the experience of Panavision in the US is very different from the one in Europe then. Here the price and service Arri Rental offers is unbeatable. I've had quotes where Panavision in Paris was 5 times more expensive than Arri.
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#12 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 06:49 AM

Hi,

Well, c'mon, is it any real secret that Panavision outside the US exists to service American productions shooting on location?

Phil
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#13 Michael Most

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 08:35 AM

Well, c'mon, is it any real secret that Panavision outside the US exists to service American productions shooting on location?


....mainly to give over-large IATSE crews something to do with their otherwise unfilled hours.


You know, Phil, we finally met and I was only partially surprised to learn you're basically a really nice guy. And since you're working for Geoff Boyle, you obviously have knowledge and skill, because Geoff wouldn't settle for less. But your rampant, incessant anti Americanism here needs to stop. I know you revel in the sarcasm, but insulting American crews and American companies - repeatedly - does nothing to add to this or any other discussion.

Knock it off.
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#14 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 08:57 AM

How can I put this - I'm, uh, kidding?

- P
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#15 Richard Boddington

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 11:26 AM

"But your rampant, incessant anti Americanism here needs to stop. I know you revel in the sarcasm, but insulting American crews and American companies - repeatedly - does nothing to add to this or any other discussion."

Yeah Phil! And besides rampant, incessant anti Americanism is the job of Canadians!! We have to live next door to them, you're on the other side of the Atlantic, you have nothing to complain about :)


R,
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#16 Stephen Whitehead

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 12:55 PM

What I find hilarious is that Panavision Toronto charges in US dollars!!

Not a huge difference today, but still, an extra .14 per dollar is an extra .14 per dollar.

I would love to shoot my next project with a Panavision camera, but mainly so that when I start an "In Production" thread on this forum, people will look at the pics and say "Oooooo he's using Panavision." :)

I guess for now I'll have to stick with my Arri.

R,


They Only charge American Dollars on the actual Panaflex cameras, because they are owned by a private U.S. Company, whereas Panavision Toronto owns the Arri's which they bought from Whites, and they charge in canadian for those. But generally in Toronto Panavision is the best house. I find they are often substantially cheaper than Production Services, or Clairmont.

Cheers,

Steve

Edited by Stephen Whitehead, 29 July 2006 - 01:00 PM.

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#17 Stephen Murphy

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 01:13 PM

All I can say is that the experience of Panavision in the US is very different from the one in Europe then.


I couldnt agree more. The service from Panavision in Europe is the total opposite from the Service Woodland hills gives. The PV gear in Europe tends to be poorly maintained whereas Arri's cameras usually come with that "just been painted" smell.
Although in fairness to PV i would be surprised to find that there is much of a difference between a full feature package of Arri St's/Lt's/Cookes and PV Milleniums/XL's/Primos.
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#18 Stephen Williams

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 02:50 PM

What I find hilarious is that Panavision Toronto charges in US dollars!!

R,


Richard,

What currency does Canada's premier stock footage company quote in? Are they not just following your business play?

Stephen
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#19 Richard Boddington

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 04:22 PM

Richard,

What currency does Canada's premier stock footage company quote in? Are they not just following your business play?

Stephen


Touche!

R,

PS: We ship world wide though from one location.
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#20 Stuart McCammon

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 05:35 PM

I love Panavision because they played along when I sent a green P.A. to the valley for a bag of f-stops, and they sent back an envelope marked "Camera Deparment! Urgent!" that was full of Panavision keychains and other doodads - hard to find that kind of customer service anywhere. . .

Oh yah, and they are American, so they have that going for them)
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