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Super35 and T-sops


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#1 Adam Paul

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 02:10 AM

Hi guys, I have a double question for Lomo experts out there.

First, do Lomos cover Super35?

Second is, is there a T-stop table for using with Lomo
primes? I always hated the fact Lomos are rated in
F-stops. How can I work with them in T-stops? Since
we are talking about T-stops, how do you guys keep the
same exposure and light stop when changing primes if
the lenses are rated in F-stop? You can't do that with
f-stop as lenses have different transmission losses.
Somebody told me LOMOs have been rated in T-stops since the
60?s, but every Lomo prime I?ve seen seems to be rated if F-stops.
Thanks in advance.
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#2 Adam Paul

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Posted 04 August 2006 - 03:23 AM

Is it that hard of a question?
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#3 Stephen Williams

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Posted 04 August 2006 - 04:43 AM

Hi guys, I have a double question for Lomo experts out there.

First, do Lomos cover Super35?

Second is, is there a T-stop table for using with Lomo
primes? I always hated the fact Lomos are rated in
F-stops. How can I work with them in T-stops? Since
we are talking about T-stops, how do you guys keep the
same exposure and light stop when changing primes if
the lenses are rated in F-stop? You can't do that with
f-stop as lenses have different transmission losses.
Somebody told me LOMOs have been rated in T-stops since the
60?s, but every Lomo prime I?ve seen seems to be rated if F-stops.
Thanks in advance.


Hi,

Prime lenses probably will cover at least 1:1.85 if the lens mount is recentered. Some lenses may vignette slightly when focused in close up or when wide open. You need to test each and every lens to be sure.

As far as F to T stops, lenses have to be measured and calibrated individually. A rough guess of 1/3 stop will be quite close.

Stephen
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#4 Adam Paul

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Posted 04 August 2006 - 05:26 AM

I was sure it covered 1.1.85 as this is a normal Konvas/Kinor format, which is Academy.
I was wondering about full frame(Super35)


"As far as F to T stops, lenses have to be measured and calibrated individually. A rough guess of 1/3 stop will be quite close."

So they really are marked in F-stops? Could you elaborate a little on the above?
Thanks.
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#5 Stephen Williams

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Posted 04 August 2006 - 06:30 AM

I was sure it covered 1.1.85 as this is a normal Konvas/Kinor format, which is Academy.
I was wondering about full frame(Super35)
"As far as F to T stops, lenses have to be measured and calibrated individually. A rough guess of 1/3 stop will be quite close."

So they really are marked in F-stops? Could you elaborate a little on the above?
Thanks.


Hi,

I was talking about S35 1:185!

T stops are measured by the amount of light transmitted through the glass. It needs to be physically measured, not a problem for a lens technician.

Stephen
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 04 August 2006 - 10:55 AM

If you're talking about Lomo anamorphics, there's no reason to cover S35.
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#7 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 04 August 2006 - 11:46 AM

Hi guys, I have a double question for Lomo experts out there.

First, do Lomos cover Super35?

Second is, is there a T-stop table for using with Lomo
primes? I always hated the fact Lomos are rated in
F-stops.
Somebody told me LOMOs have been rated in T-stops since the
60?s, but every Lomo prime I?ve seen seems to be rated if F-stops.



---Anders Banke, in Sweden, is quite the Kinor/Konvas expert. He modifies and rents them & has contacts in Russia. So he has far more experience than you. If he says they have T stops, he can be believed.
________________________________________________________________________________
_
Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:22:17 +0200
From: "Anders Banke" <anders@solidentertainment.se> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: konvas@smartgroups.com
Subject: Re: [Konvas] Lomos in T-stop? Super35?

Adam C.Jones wrote:
> Hi guys, I have a double question. :)
> First, do Lomos cover Super35?
> Second is, is there a T-stop table for using with Lomo
> primes? I always hated the fact Lomos are rated in
> F-stops.
LOMOs have been rated in T-stops since the 1960s.....


/Anders
________________________________________________________________________________
_

As to S35 coverage, obviously some do & some don't.

---LV
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#8 Michael Maier

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Posted 04 August 2006 - 12:17 PM

What I always knew about Lomos is that they are rated in meters and F-stops as opposed to inches and T-stops like most cine lenses in the U.S.
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#9 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 03:00 PM

Hi guys, I have a double question for Lomo experts out there.
First, do Lomos cover Super35?


Yes, The many LOMO lenses can cover Super 35 film gate.
If you check of technical information LOMO lenses, you can see size of image 16 x 22 mm.
Super 35 have size 13 x 24 mm
But, Russian 35 mm cine cameras Kinor-35 H and other, have exchangeable Super 35 film gate.
The russian zoom lens 35 OPF-18-1 20-120 mm have special exchangeable rear part of Super 35.
I don't know special special exchangeable rear part of Super 35 for prime lenses.

I think, the prime and zoom lenses from Kinor-35 H camera to cover Super 35 film gate.
But, I support idea of test of lens with Super 35 film gate.

Elite Optics lenses design for Super 35 film gate.


Second is, is there a T-stop table for using with Lomo
primes? I always hated the fact Lomos are rated in
F-stops. How can I work with them in T-stops? Since
we are talking about T-stops, how do you guys keep the
same exposure and light stop when changing primes if
the lenses are rated in F-stop? You can't do that with
f-stop as lenses have different transmission losses.
Somebody told me LOMOs have been rated in T-stops since the
60?s, but every Lomo prime I?ve seen seems to be rated if F-stops.
Thanks in advance.


The russian technical standard of lens production wrote.
The russian lens have mark of open F-stop on front side of prime and zoom lenses.
But, the ring of aperture control have marks of aperture positions on T- stops.
The first ( full open ) aperture position can have digital of T-stop not from standard series, but, the next positions of aperture have digital of T stop from standard series.
For example.
Prime lens of Konvas-2M camera OKC-8-35-1 have mark " 2:1" on front side of lens.
This is mark of F stop 2.0
But, the ring of aperture control have red digitals : 2.2, 2.8, 4, 5.6 , 8 , 11, 16.
The marks of T stops, T-2.2, volume of T stop with full open aperture, not from standard series of T-stops, but, the next digitals ( 2.8, 4, 5.6, 8, 11, 16 ) T stop position from standard series.

I don't know about any other system of marks of aperture of russian lenses.

The aperture control of LOMO lens can be adjusting and russian cine studious had special tools for
test and adjust of aperture control of lens.

The standard LOMO lenses have distance of focusing on meters.
But, LOMO had special delivery of LOMO lenses on West with foot marks of distances. This is rare lenses.
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#10 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 12:28 PM

Another testamonial from a long time Kinor/LOMO user:

Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 15:53:58 -0400
From: colcam@aim.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: cinema@konvas.org
Subject: Re: [Konvas] T-stops and Super35

ALL oct19 lenses are marked in t-stops, and cover an area greater than super35.

Most, if not all 1963 and later "earlier mount" lenses are in t-stops, the only ones not being in t-stop being the blue colored ones, which also have a different backfocus distance. I've never had the urge to check them against super35 coverage since I gave up on the earlier mount for anything except hand crank or wild footage, and even the oct19 I use is almost all anamorphic-- but I did the tests, just in case I had to shoot super35 for some reason.

Now, as for keeping the same exposure, seriously, anything within a half stop shot on negative film will print out correctly. I've gotten away with two and a half stops difference, and still had a negative that came up to "couldn't tell." There's a lot to worry about, and exact matching when shooting reversal might be one, but unless you are shooting high speed reversal and pushing it, quit worrying.

=====================================================================

& yes the Soviets had a "Super 35" system in the mid-late 70s. It was called Universal Format.


More later.

---LV
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#11 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:00 PM

[quote name='Leo A Vale' date='Aug 7 2006, 01:28 PM' post='119120']

& yes the Soviets had a "Super 35" system in the mid-late 70s. It was called Universal Format.
More later.

************

---The SMPTE Journal briefly mentioned Universal Format in a Progress Report in the 70s
& a detailed paper in the early 80s.
This predated 'Greystoke's Super Techniscope.

The big differences between Universal Format and Super35 are

that the lens mount is centered, not on the full aperture, but, on what would be the 2.55:1 CinemaScope aperture, which is offset 0.5mm from full center. Acedemy offset is about 1.4mm from full center.

The top line is the same as 1.85:1 'academy'

& the track side of 1.85:1 is indicated on the ground glass & dailies projector aperture
So that one is framing for both anamorphic optical blow up and 1.85:1/TV contact prints;
hence 'Universal' format.

Fairly certain Konchalevski's 'Siberiade' used the system possibly a Bondarchuk, but can't pindown which one.

& one of the flow charts for 70mm prints indicates making a 70mm blow up print from 35mm the OCN, then making reversal RPs from the blow up print!

'Jack the Giant Killer' 1962 was filmed in a similar multiple format.
Magazine interviews about the multiple format are confusing, but it did have 35mm Scope prints.
The Fantascope credit might actually refer to the Dynamation type effects work rather than the wide screen.

---LV
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