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taping 16mm projector image as telecine


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#1 Jay Cowley

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Posted 04 August 2006 - 12:19 PM

I have become really fed up with the crappy looking image of DV, and want to get myself a 16mm film movie camera.

i woud never be able to get my film developed in a lab, so in order to use 16mm, i will need a way to convert the film to digital (for editing) at home by myself.


i wanted to purchase a 16MM Projector, and just play though my footage on a screen, and then record the image using my DV camcorder (perhaps soon an HD consumer camcorder) and then edit that way.

is this idea at all workable, or is it something that many have tried, and just won't work.

the projector id like to buy on ebay is going in 30 hours, so any soon replies would be appeciated.

thanks
Jay Cowley
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#2 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 04 August 2006 - 12:39 PM

I have become really fed up with the crappy looking image of DV, and want to get myself a 16mm film movie camera.

i woud never be able to get my film developed in a lab, so in order to use 16mm, i will need a way to convert the film to digital (for editing) at home by myself.
i wanted to purchase a 16MM Projector, and just play though my footage on a screen, and then record the image using my DV camcorder (perhaps soon an HD consumer camcorder) and then edit that way.

is this idea at all workable, or is it something that many have tried, and just won't work.

the projector id like to buy on ebay is going in 30 hours, so any soon replies would be appeciated.

thanks
Jay Cowley


You need to get your film processed SOMEWHERE before transferring it. Home processing of E-6 (7285), B&W reversal (7265, 7266), and B&W negative (7231, 7222) are feasible. Generally, I would advise against trying to "transfer" negative films on a projection type telecine. Why would shooting a projected image with a DV camera eliminate the deficiencies of the DV camera?

Why would you "never" get your film processed and transferred professionally? Some labs and transfer facilities cater to student and independent filmmakers with attractively priced services.

Some labs are partnering with Kodak to offer a "Film Kit" of VISION2 film, processing and transfer:

http://www.kodak.com.../filmKits.jhtml

Designed and priced exclusively for students and educators, the KODAK VISION2 16 mm Film Kit makes shooting film easier and more affordable than ever. It includes everything you need?film, processing, one-light transfer, and step-by-step instructions to walk you through the entire process. The Kit makes it easy for you to use the best quality images with your PC or MACINTOSH-based editing system. Your chance is here. Change the world. (Available in the United States Only)


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#3 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 04 August 2006 - 12:51 PM

I have become really fed up with the crappy looking image of DV, and want to get myself a 16mm film movie camera.

i wanted to purchase a 16MM Projector, and just play though my footage on a screen, and then record the image using my DV camcorder (perhaps soon an HD consumer camcorder) and then edit that way.


---If you don't like the crappy looking DV, how is rephotographing a projected image onto crappy DV going to be an improvement?

---LV
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#4 Jay Cowley

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Posted 04 August 2006 - 05:55 PM

---If you don't like the crappy looking DV, how is rephotographing a projected image onto crappy DV going to be an improvement?

---LV


it was more the way digital captures the images, ie the harsh look, colours, and most importantly DEPTH OF FIELD, that i don't like about digital.

the good thing abot digital is that is captures exactly what you see. So if i can should all my footage in film, as long as it looks decent on a screen, the digital reproduction should work fine to recapture the film look.


i was more asking about quality, wondering if anyone had tried this, and discovered it to be 'workable'
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#5 Clive Tobin

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Posted 04 August 2006 - 09:44 PM

...i wanted to purchase a 16MM Projector, and just play though my footage on a screen, and then record the image using my DV camcorder ...


If you just shoot a regular projector with a regular camcorder, you are going to get a terrible flicker in the video because of the projector shutter interruption rate (about 72 Hz at 24 FPS) beating against the camcorder 59.94 Hz vertical scan rate. Besides being very irritating you might trigger an epileptic fit in susceptible viewers.

Besides this, you will get image distortion because the projector and camcorder cannot both be in the same place, and you will pick up the texture of whatever screen you are projecting on. There are ways to prevent all this but using "regular" equipment won't do it.

What you need is known as "telecine" and we are working on a 16mm version of our well-known TVT-8 video transfer machines, which should be available in a couple of months. www.TobinCinemaSystems.com .
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#6 timHealy

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Posted 04 August 2006 - 10:37 PM

I just mentioned this in another thread: for low budget film to tape try moviestuff transfers. they offer a film to tape to via a ccd to computer file where they color correct and the print to tape.

http://www.moviestuff.tv/

It is not a "broadcast quality" transfer, but you can do your stuff in mini DV format. And I think they'll do a test roll for free.


best

Tim

PS I don't work for them.

Edited by heel_e, 04 August 2006 - 10:38 PM.

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#7 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 12:04 PM

it was more the way digital captures the images, ie the harsh look, colours, and most importantly DEPTH OF FIELD, that i don't like about digital.


---Avoid direct sunlight and other contrasty light. Open shade and soft lit interiors look fine.

& avoid diagonals because of the stepping.

But the DEPTH OF FIELD is great. That and the small cameras are its main advantages od DV.

What the hell is wrong with deep focus?

May the ghosts of Orson Wells and John Frankenheimer fog your film.


---LV
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#8 Alexandre Lucena

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 06:06 PM

Mr. Tobin

Does your company has any intention in developing a video to 35mm film transfer device. May be
an improved version of the kinescope. Something entry level.


Alexandre
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