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Angeniuen Zoom Lenses


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#1 Jimmy Ren

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 11:52 AM

Hey guys. I was wondering what the numbers in front of a lense description designates. For example, what does the "12-120" mean for a Angenieux Zoom lense? What is the difference between a 9.5-57 Angenieux Zoom Lense and a 12-120? Which one is more useful, or has greater lattitude?

Also, what is a fluid zoom control?

Thanks a bunch!
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 12:02 PM

Hey guys. I was wondering what the numbers in front of a lense description designates. For example, what does the "12-120" mean for a Angenieux Zoom lense? What is the difference between a 9.5-57 Angenieux Zoom Lense and a 12-120? Which one is more useful, or has greater lattitude?


That describes the range in focal length -- 12mm to 120mm is a bigger overall range than 9.5mm to 57mm, but 9.5mm is a wider-angle effect, so that zoom doesn't have as long a range, doesn't go as telephoto, but starts at a wider-angle position. 12-120 is a 10X zoom and 9.5-75 is a 6X zoom.

Generally the shorter zooms with less range tend to be a little sharper because they have fewer elements, but not always in this case; older lenses vary quite a bit in quality.

A zoom control usually attaches to a motor that zooms the lens smoothly, as opposed to rotating the zoom barrel of the lens manually. Some older lenses also have a little crank handle on the zoom barrel. Make sure your zoom control is part of a package that includes the zoom motor.
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#3 Jimmy Ren

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 12:43 PM

That describes the range in focal length -- 12mm to 120mm is a bigger overall range than 9.5mm to 57mm, but 9.5mm is a wider-angle effect, so that zoom doesn't have as long a range, doesn't go as telephoto, but starts at a wider-angle position. 12-120 is a 10X zoom and 9.5-75 is a 6X zoom.

Generally the shorter zooms with less range tend to be a little sharper because they have fewer elements, but not always in this case; older lenses vary quite a bit in quality.

A zoom control usually attaches to a motor that zooms the lens smoothly, as opposed to rotating the zoom barrel of the lens manually. Some older lenses also have a little crank handle on the zoom barrel. Make sure your zoom control is part of a package that includes the zoom motor.



David, thanks for your quick response! I think I get it. The 9.5mm starts wider and zooms less. It has less telephoto, but it should be sharper.

Another dumb question: is there any difference between a regular 16 and super 16 lense? if i get a s16 camera (i.e. converted NPRor ACL), can i plug in any old lense that fits in the camera body and expect it to work?

in fact, the whole super 16 thing confuses me. Is the difference between a reg 16 and super 16 analogous to the difference between reg 8 and super 8? that is, if i want to shoot in super 16, i have to get a a s16 camera, s16 film, and s16 processing? or is the difference just in the camera (a wider gate), and the film and processing is exactly the same as reg 16?

thanks again!
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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 01:47 PM

Super-16 uses single-perf film so it can extend the picture area out to the right where the other perf row would be (a 16mm print with an optical soundtrack also eliminates the perfs on one side to put the soundtrack there, so you can't contact print Super-16 if you want a soundtrack on the 16mm print.) You can use regular processing, video transfer is the same except that the image is widescreen. If you make a contact print for viewing, you'd need a Super-16 gate in the projector. Same if you are going to edit workprint on a flatbed or upright.

Super-8 and Regular-8 is different because Regular-8 uses 16mm film with twice as many perfs and you expose one side of the film and then reload and expose the reverse direction on the other half, then split the film down the middle after processing. Super-8 is already 8mm wide and has smaller perfs to give more area to the picture.

Super-35 and Regular 35mm is also different than Super-16 because 35mm always uses perfs on both sides.

Not all 16mm lenses will cover the whole Super-16 area, especially certain wide-angle lenses and some zooms.
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#5 Jimmy Ren

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:21 PM

So even though the film stock is labeled SUPER 16, I should be able to use it in my R16 camera? And conversely, I should be able to use any 16mm/single perf film stock in my S16 camera?

How do you know which 16mm lenses will cover and which will not? Is there any way of telling besides just testing it?

Thanks again! :)
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#6 Dan Horstman

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 03:59 PM

So even though the film stock is labeled SUPER 16, I should be able to use it in my R16 camera? And conversely, I should be able to use any 16mm/single perf film stock in my S16 camera?

How do you know which 16mm lenses will cover and which will not? Is there any way of telling besides just testing it?

Thanks again! :)



You can shoot single perf 16mm in both Regular 16 and Super 16 cameras. Some older regular 16 cameras have sprocket wheels that have perfs on both sides so check out your camera first.

Most older Angenieux lenses do not cover Super 16. 12-120 and 9.5-57 do not cover Super 16. The 15-150 does cover Super 16. Some lenses will cover Super 16 at longer focal lengths so you can use them but can't use them all the way wide.
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#7 Jimmy Ren

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:37 PM

"12-120 and 9.5-57 do not cover Super 16"? really? i'm planning on purchasing a s16 converted ACL 2 that comes with a 9.5-57 lense. will it not cover s16?
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#8 Dan Horstman

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:55 PM

"12-120 and 9.5-57 do not cover Super 16"? really? i'm planning on purchasing a s16 converted ACL 2 that comes with a 9.5-57 lense. will it not cover s16?


Nope it doesn't cover super 16. It might cover at longer focal lengths...but it doesn't cover Super 16. I have one for my ACL 2 and haven't got my camera converted because I love this lens so much. The distortion when it is all the way wide looks sooooo good.

One thing you can do to cover super 16 on the cheap is to get a C mount to Nikon F Mount adapter (I think they are like $50) and then buy 35mm Nikon F mount lenses. Unfortunately you won't be able to get wide angle lenses with this. But it works.
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#9 Jimmy Ren

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 06:30 PM

Thanks for the advice! If a lense doesn't cover s16, what happens to the picture as you're shooting? Does the right side of the frame get cut off? would you be able to tell from the viewfinder?
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#10 Stephen Williams

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 02:04 AM

Thanks for the advice! If a lense doesn't cover s16, what happens to the picture as you're shooting? Does the right side of the frame get cut off? would you be able to tell from the viewfinder?


Hi,

Normally you will see vignetting in the viewfinder, pulling focus can make a difference too.

Stephen
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#11 Jimmy Ren

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 03:19 AM

Hi,

Normally you will see vignetting in the viewfinder, pulling focus can make a difference too.

Stephen



I understand the vignetting, but why would pulling focus be effected? in fact, what is pulling focus? is that just changing the focus onto something else? why would having a lense not fully covering s16 effect focus? thanks!
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#12 Stephen Williams

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 07:24 AM

I understand the vignetting, but why would pulling focus be effected? in fact, what is pulling focus? is that just changing the focus onto something else? why would having a lense not fully covering s16 effect focus? thanks!


Hi,

Pulling focus is changing the focus in shot. As the focus changes so can the size of the vignette! Even some converted S16 lenses will vignette if one focuses to closely.

Stephen
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#13 Dan Horstman

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 01:21 PM

You could still use the lenses that don't cover super 16, but then you wouldn't get the advantage of super 16, the greater image area. You would want to tell your telecine facility to transfer the film with 4:3 center framing. This would crop the sides of the film to the regular 16 frame size so the edges where the lens is vignetting wouldn't show up on screen. You would still have to do a 35mm blow up to make a film print as your image center is for Super 16 and will now be creeping into the sound track area. But you could get by with a regular 16 lens on a super 16 camera while you save up for a super 16 lens.

Edited by Dan Horstman, 08 August 2006 - 01:22 PM.

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#14 Jimmy Ren

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 01:16 PM

That describes the range in focal length -- 12mm to 120mm is a bigger overall range than 9.5mm to 57mm, but 9.5mm is a wider-angle effect, so that zoom doesn't have as long a range, doesn't go as telephoto, but starts at a wider-angle position. 12-120 is a 10X zoom and 9.5-75 is a 6X zoom.

Generally the shorter zooms with less range tend to be a little sharper because they have fewer elements, but not always in this case; older lenses vary quite a bit in quality.

A zoom control usually attaches to a motor that zooms the lens smoothly, as opposed to rotating the zoom barrel of the lens manually. Some older lenses also have a little crank handle on the zoom barrel. Make sure your zoom control is part of a package that includes the zoom motor.


So, does that mean with all lenses: the lower the number, the wider the angle effect and the higher the second number, the longer the telephoto range?
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#15 Dan Horstman

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 04:48 PM

So, does that mean with all lenses: the lower the number, the wider the angle effect and the higher the second number, the longer the telephoto range?



Yes.

Example:

9.5-57mm - all the way wide is at 9.5mm all the way zoomed is at 57mm

Some more info:

Normal Perspective (like your eye) - in 16mm film is a 25mm lens, in 35mm film is a 50mm lens

Wide Angle Perspective - in 16mm film is less than 25mm lens, in 35mm film is less than 50mm - the wider you go the wider field of view, greater depth of field and more distortion (the image will stretch at the edges...especially noticable when doing closeups)

Telephoto Perspective - in 16mm film is greater than 25mm lens, in 35mm is greater than 50mm lens - the longer you go, the more narrow field of view and less depth of field

And some more info you didn't ask for:

A telephoto lens makes side to side and up and down motion seem faster. You want a whip pan that really whips...use a long lens. It makes motion coming towards and going away from the camera seem slower. A long lens will also magnify any bumps on the path of the dolly or shakiness of the camera operator while doing hand held.

A wide angle lens makes motion towards and away from the camera seem faster. Want a fast dolly in...use a wide lens. Lateral motion seems slower. This makes it good to use a wide lens for hand held work as it will dampen the amount of jiggle, jitter or bumpiness.
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Glidecam

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Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

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Broadcast Solutions Inc

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