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575 HMI Par


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#1 Roberto Hernandez

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 05:17 PM

I'm looking for an inexpensive, low budget light for an upcoming project that will give me the same charactaristics as a 575 HMI par. I'm looking for something punchy to backlight some actors in a scene. The light would be motivated by a window in a small abandoned building with very low key lighting in the room. How expensive would buying a 575 HMI par be? And is there any low-budget tools I can use to create this lighting scheme. Thanks.
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#2 Matt Workman

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 09:15 PM

Check visual products. www.visualproducts.com I bought a 1200 and 575 w/ electronic ballasts and stands for a good price.

Also on ebay there are some 575w HMI with magnetic ballasts, but they have their obvious fallbacks.

Why can't you rent? They are like $150 a day.
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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 10:39 PM

There aren't really any alternatives to the 575w HMI PAR that are also daylight-balanced but are cheaper -- there is a 400w HMI Dedolight and HMI PAR version, for example, but it isn't cheaper.

You could gel a 1K PAR64 with blue, or try a FAY light (tungsten PAR globe with a dichroic) but it's not going to end up as bright as a 575w HMI PAR.
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#4 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 09:12 AM

Renting a HMI would be a lot cheaper than buying, unless it's a long shoot.

A 2k Blond tungsten light with a CTB or dichroic is about the cheapest - perhaps not as punchy as a PAR. I'm not sure how common they are in the US, also needing a power tie in is a bit of a problem in the US - you can just plug it into the wall here.
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#5 Danny Lachman

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 01:47 PM

Can't HMI's burn people with ultraviolent radiation? I read on wikipedia that you needed a uv filter - but then I talked to a light guy on a film set and he said that there were no filters over his 12k light.
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 01:52 PM

Can't HMI's burn people with ultraviolent radiation? I read on wikipedia that you needed a uv filter - but then I talked to a light guy on a film set and he said that there were no filters over his 12k light.


The fresnel lens in front of the HMI, or the glass in the HMI PAR bulb housing, acts as a UV filter. The danger is when you remove the fresnel in front of a big HMI for a sharper effect -- you need to at least replace it with clear glass. If you don't, you can burn your retina from looking at the HMI.
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#7 timHealy

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 02:25 PM

My understanding is that HMI fresnels have the UV protection incorporated into the fresnel glass itself. And HMI pars have the UV incorporated into the clear protection glass that is not meant to be taken out in case one want to use an HMI par without a lens. In fact on many HMI's there is a micro switch that will keep the unit off if you try to fire it without the glass or with the door open.

I guess I basically said what David said. But David can one use a regular piece of glass as UV protection? I have been on jobs where people have use Lee or Rosco UV filter on a frame but I usually stay away from that sort of thing.

You can however severely burn yourself or anyone else for that matter if you put your hand, forearm or any other human appendage in front of a large HMI par without a lens or a narrow lens. Or if you leave something combustible if front of a HMI for a long period of time.

Best

Tim

Edited by heel_e, 14 August 2006 - 02:29 PM.

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#8 Danny Lachman

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 02:57 PM

With the danger of an HMI burning people - you'd think flourescant light is looking pretty appealling with all of the improvements they've made on them. I've heard that flourescant are a great source of light. Is this true? I know they make "film lighting flourescants" but what about ordinary flourescant? would that be good for digital production?
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#9 Chad Stockfleth

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 03:53 PM

The danger is when you remove the fresnel in front of a big HMI for a sharper effect --


When you say "big" what do you mean? 1.2? 2.5? bigger?
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#10 timHealy

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 03:58 PM

HMIs can injure someone but as long as responsible and experienced men and women are working with them there is almost no one that can be hurt other than the electricians using them. Getting burned occasionally comes with the territory.

But they do serve a purpose. There are reasons to use them such as color temp, the amount of light they put out and the quality of light: for example an 18k HMI puts out more light then a few 10 k's, use less power, and are perfect for a wide smooth source to cover a large area. A 12k par for example can give you a powerful beam that may be useful for bouncing or direct where you may want a source to blow out.

There are other reason too but basicaly they are tools with appropriate uses.

Flourescents are not anything like HMIs but have their uses ase well. They are naturally diffused and fall off very quickly. They can be useful as practicals, key lights, back light, fill or an eyelight on actors.

Flourescents are perfect for small shoots as well as professional as they are fairly easy to use and you can plug them into normal household outlets. Many people love using uncorrected warm and cool white bulbs as well as color correct 5500 and 3200 bulbs.

Best

Tim

Edited by heel_e, 14 August 2006 - 03:59 PM.

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#11 Scott Fritzshall

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 04:01 PM

With the danger of an HMI burning people - you'd think flourescant light is looking pretty appealling with all of the improvements they've made on them. I've heard that flourescant are a great source of light. Is this true? I know they make "film lighting flourescants" but what about ordinary flourescant? would that be good for digital production?

The danger of using ordinary fluorescents is that 1) they tend to flicker, especially older ones; 2) they tend to have an ugly greenish hue; and 3) they tend to look really really hideous when they're mounted overhead.

If you're shooting digitally, you can adjust your shutter to avoid any flicker, and you may be able to filter the lights or white balance to take care of the greenish color. But if you're stuck with overheads, like in a grocery store or office, you'll notice that they give a horrible flat fill over everything and look really ugly.
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#12 timHealy

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 04:02 PM

When you say "big" what do you mean? 1.2? 2.5? bigger?


I believe he means up to the biggest 18k (I think there are some working on a 24k but they are not widely available yet. Or at least I haven't seen one myself)


Best

Tim
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#13 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 04:14 PM

You're safe with the Fresnel lens closed. There's a safety switch that prevents you from firing up the HMI with the lens open. The small HMIs are dangerous as well.

You need protective glass to reduce the UV to a safe level.
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#14 Luke Prendergast

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 05:14 PM

Congo Blue in front of a 'cheap' HMI with inadequate UV filtering works really well as a UV source with less purple than tubes or mercury vapor UVs.
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