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Gate Not Quite S16 on K3...?


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#1 Sir Alvin Ekarma

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 05:12 PM

I bought an S16 K3 for cheep from Ebay and when I was having the pro mod done by Du-all (I was having some serious problems loading the camera) I was told that the dimensions don't quite match up to S16. I don't quite recall the number off the top of my head but instead of it being in the ballpark of 12 or so milimeters, it was 11.85mm or just really close/not quite 12mm. The fella I bought it from was nice enough to include a blow-up of a frame shot through the camera and that looked good but I was wondering if this will adversely impact the film image. Du-all said that it was within tolerances so it shouldn't totally mess things up. What do you folks think? I'm using this as a crash cam/b-camera to put in mortal danger so I'm willing to settle for "good enough" rather than "perfect".
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 07:34 PM

It's probably fine -- the only potential problem is if it is being intercut with Super-16 footage from other cameras and then being optically blown-up to 35mm and for some reason, you can see a black edge intrude into the projected image everytime the shot comes up. Otherwise, in most other cases, it would be easy to reframe to lose any gate edge that becomes visible, if at all, when doing telecine or a D.I.

You should get some footage blown-up to 35mm and projected with a standard 1.85 hard matte to see if the image fills the screen.
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#3 Sir Alvin Ekarma

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 07:52 PM

It's probably fine -- the only potential problem is if it is being intercut with Super-16 footage from other cameras and then being optically blown-up to 35mm and for some reason, you can see a black edge intrude into the projected image everytime the shot comes up. Otherwise, in most other cases, it would be easy to reframe to lose any gate edge that becomes visible, if at all, when doing telecine or a D.I.

You should get some footage blown-up to 35mm and projected with a standard 1.85 hard matte to see if the image fills the screen.


Thanks for the info. I think I might just have the gate milled out to proper specs since a 35mm optical blow-up test would probably end up costing the same.
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#4 Dan Horstman

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Posted 09 August 2006 - 01:12 PM

Thanks for the info. I think I might just have the gate milled out to proper specs since a 35mm optical blow-up test would probably end up costing the same.


Sir Al,

I know I already replied to this question via email. But I just had another thought...you should get in touch with www.k3camera.com they have Super 16 gate kits for about $300.00 (and less if you send them your old gate)

Dan
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#5 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 09 August 2006 - 03:35 PM

Sir Al,

I know I already replied to this question via email. But I just had another thought...you should get in touch with www.k3camera.com they have Super 16 gate kits for about $300.00 (and less if you send them your old gate)

Dan


Good information, good instalation instruction.
I not read a instruction detailed, but, i worry about one question.
What flange focal distance will have camera after set of new Super 16 film gate.
The flange focal distance can change after you unscrew a screws.
They tell any about this ?
The film gate can have adjusting washers between body and film gate.
If the camera will have not correct a flange focal distance ( +/- 0.01 mm ).
You will see sharpness image on ground glass but, will have diffuse image at the film.
The any operations with film gate more dangerous conditions from any operations with lens mount or front part of body.
If you take away of lens mount or front part of body, you not touching of distances between mirror surface and ground glass and between mirror surface and surface of film. You not to distort the balance between this distances.
After replace of film gate, need adjust of flange focal distance of film gate and ground glass with collimator.
We discuss a Super 16 film gate, this is professional standard of film, and service must have professional volume too.

Other, not tell any words about adjust of position of cogs wheel on axis.
If the cogs wheel set not correct, the film will jameed or cogs can jam on rollers.

The take away of plastic of guide film channel, the good idea, but, need modify control of film counter.

Any case, this is my personal opinion.
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#6 Robert Glenn

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Posted 09 August 2006 - 05:28 PM

I had mine filed out , and it's about 12mm I think.. If you look at the gate, there' s a groove that would get filed into if you do it to spec. Well the person who filed mine didnt' file into the groove, leaving maybe 10 micrometers of the flat face left. It scratches my film, leaving about .85mm of the edge, which I guess would be unexposed. does S-16 go all the way to the edge?
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#7 Matthew Buick

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Posted 09 August 2006 - 08:04 PM

The K3 S16 is the cheapest Super 16 camera isn't it.
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#8 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 02:34 AM

I had mine filed out , and it's about 12mm I think.. If you look at the gate, there' s a groove that would get filed into if you do it to spec. Well the person who filed mine didnt' file into the groove, leaving maybe 10 micrometers of the flat face left. It scratches my film, leaving about .85mm of the edge, which I guess would be unexposed. does S-16 go all the way to the edge?


Yes, The profile of original film gate of K-3 camera have profile not very good for S16 modification.
[attachment=1377:attachment]

And, the film gate of K-3 camera have not a pressure plate from side.
For Super 16 need other style of film gate with other profile, but, who can do this.
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#9 Sir Alvin Ekarma

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 10:13 AM

Yes, The profile of original film gate of K-3 camera have profile not very good for S16 modification.
[attachment=1377:attachment]

And, the film gate of K-3 camera have not a pressure plate from side.
For Super 16 need other style of film gate with other profile, but, who can do this.


In any case, the camera is loading and running fine now and I guess I just need to run tests to see how it shakes down. Also, Dan The Man at Colorlab informed me that things could easily be recentered as easily in of an optical blow-up as it would be for a telecine or DI.

Also, my gate measures out to 11.80 x 7.40 with the logic (I think) being that 11.80 is the area extracted for 1.66:1 is 11.80 x 7.10 mm and the area extracted for 1.85:1 is 11.80 x 6.38 mm.

Edited by Sir Al, 10 August 2006 - 10:14 AM.

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#10 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 10:36 AM

....I guess I just need to run tests to see how it shakes down.
....

Also, my gate measures out to 11.80 x 7.40 with the logic (I think) being that 11.80 is the area extracted for 1.66:1 is 11.80 x 7.10 mm and the area extracted for 1.85:1 is 11.80 x 6.38 mm.


Yes, the final quality of Super 16 modification can show test footages only.
Will need test of Meteor-5 zoom lens an various position of zoom with new film gate too.
The academy 16 film gate have size 10.1 x 7,45 mm ( from factory draft of film gate of Kinor-16 ).
If you take 1.85:1 area from academy 16 film gate, you will have size of picture 10.1 x 5.46mm.
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#11 Dan Horstman

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 11:01 AM

Sir Al,

Shoot off a couple feet on the K3 and shoot off a couple feet on your other Super 16 camera and we'll compare the two...see if the image size is close enough not to worry.

Dan
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