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Transferring JVC GY-HD100 footage to 35mm


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#1 Dave Bourbois

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 12:15 PM

Hello there, if someone has already posted this question, then I apologize, but has anyone here ever seen footage from the GY-HD100 transferred to 35mm and projected in a theater? If so are there any settings that look better than others?

-Dave Bourbois
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#2 Tim Dashwood

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 10:08 AM

Hello there, if someone has already posted this question, then I apologize, but has anyone here ever seen footage from the GY-HD100 transferred to 35mm and projected in a theater? If so are there any settings that look better than others?

-Dave Bourbois

If you are planning to transfer your HD100 material to 35mm you should contact Andrew Young at Duart NY for some advice. He has alot of experience transferring HD100 material to 35mm (he owns one) and is very knowledgable.
Another person to contact would be James Tocher at Digital Film Group.

I have discussed this topic at great length with Andrew and James and although there seem to be two schools of thought with regards to latitude, there are some commonalities:

Lens: Use the Fuji 13x3.5 lens if possible, double check back focus on a HD monitor all the time.

Detail level: Don't turn it off, but turn it down to at least -7. Some have suggested MIN for a filmout, but personally I think -7 offers a good balance of natural "filmlike" edges without video enhancement. MIN almost seems to blur the pixels.

Frame rate: Obviously 24P is ideal. 25P is usable (with a 4% speed reduction when projected.) NEVER EVER use 30P unless it is for slightly "overcranked" slo-mo. There is no algorythm to convert 30P to 24fps and maintain true speed.

Gain: always on "0"

H Frequency: Middle
V Frequency: Low (this has something to do with video noise being introduced on HIGH setting.)

Color Matrix: Normal


As for gamma, black stretch and knee settings, opinions differ.
James Tocher helped JVC design the linear FILMOUT curve that is now in the camera, but the limitations of 8-bit HDV seem to hinder the use of a linear curve the way we would on a Varicam. The latitude of that curve is also very limiting and a monitor with a gamma box would be required for WYSIWYG monitoring.

I am of the mind that since any filmout is going to go through a D.I. timing stage, you might as well capture as much information as possible. For me this means an 80% knee and possibly Black Stretch as high as 3.
However, I have been told that the trade-off for a filmout might be the introduction of noise. I think I would still use black stretch simply to have the option to crush blacks if needed in D.I.

The other thing to keep in mind is to avoid the cine curve when shooting for film. The Cine curve emulates a film curve when presented on a TV, but will not help you with video response when colour correcting for a filmout. Stick with standard curve and normal colour matrix.
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#3 Adam Paul

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 02:14 PM

Very helpful and informative Tim. You seem to know a lot about this camera. Would you recommend the same settings for material destined to digital projection?
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#4 Tim Dashwood

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 03:14 PM

Very helpful and informative Tim. You seem to know a lot about this camera. Would you recommend the same settings for material destined to digital projection?


That depends if the digital projector is in a cinema, and therefore has the appropriate LUT loaded to emulate film response. If this is the case, then I would follow the suggestions I posted before and do your colour correction with the same LUT loaded.

However, if you are talking about a consumer or home theatre LCD projector, which would typically be calibrated to television standards, then I would use the CINE curve and attempt to achieve a film look within the standard video colour space.

Edited by Tim Dashwood, 16 August 2006 - 03:15 PM.

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#5 Dave Bourbois

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 11:01 AM

Thanks Tim. That was very helpful.
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#6 Kim Walker

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 09:13 AM

Hello there, if someone has already posted this question, then I apologize, but has anyone here ever seen footage from the GY-HD100 transferred to 35mm and projected in a theater? If so are there any settings that look better than others?

-Dave Bourbois

Hi Tim or whom ever can answer this question,

I understand your answer for Dave, however I'm trying to figure out if I should use 24P or 24PA on my JVC-GY 100-U camera. I have the standard factory lens. I'm using Avid Express Pro, the latest since September 2006. I would like to shoot for a possible film out and for DVD & television exhibition. I need this ASAP. Thanks.
Kim
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#7 Tim Dashwood

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 02:24 AM

Hi Tim or whom ever can answer this question,

I understand your answer for Dave, however I'm trying to figure out if I should use 24P or 24PA on my JVC-GY 100-U camera. I have the standard factory lens. I'm using Avid Express Pro, the latest since September 2006. I would like to shoot for a possible film out and for DVD & television exhibition. I need this ASAP. Thanks.
Kim

24P normal and 24PA only exist when shooting in DV NTSC mode. You won't be given this option in HDV mode - just a frame rate choice of 24, 25 or 30. If you intend to do a filmout at some point shoot HDV-24P mode.


In HDV mode these two separate types of pulldown aren't necessary because 720P60 records 60 progressive frames instead of splitting 24P across 60 fields like NTSC or 1080i. Therefore a standard 2:3 pulldown is used for 720P60, but you will never encounter a split-field pulldown frame.

Most of the current NLEs are now capable of capturing 720P24 and ignoring the repeated pulldown frames, but not Avid Express Pro (as of Dec 2006.) You should explore other options. Avid has been promising full support of JVC's ProHD since NAB2005, but their band-aid solution seems to be the acquistion of Liquid.

Edited by Tim Dashwood, 02 January 2007 - 02:28 AM.

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#8 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 04:03 AM

Some have suggested MIN for a filmout, but personally I think -7 offers a good balance of natural "filmlike" edges without video enhancement. MIN almost seems to blur the pixels....

........I am of the mind that since any filmout is going to go through a D.I. timing stage, you might as well capture as much information as possible. For me this means an 80% knee and possibly Black Stretch as high as 3. However, I have been told that the trade-off for a filmout might be the introduction of noise. I think I would still use black stretch simply to have the option to crush blacks if needed in D.I.

The other thing to keep in mind is to avoid the cine curve when shooting for film. The Cine curve emulates a film curve when presented on a TV, but will not help you with video response when colour correcting for a filmout.............


This is really great advice. Ever since the early to mid 90's video camera manufacturers started trying to emulate the film look on consumer camcorders and even on some 3 chip industrials like the Hitachi Z-oneC. The result was the raw camera signal when viewed directly to a television could look pretty decent if one pointed the camera at a completely flat lit environment, but because the camera signal would actually be going to tape first, and usually the scene would not be lit flat it was the most incorrect thing that could have been designed.

I still get pissed when I think of what Hitachi did to their Z-one C's. There should have been a class action law suit filed against them but instead I think they remedied the design error on their next generation of "digital" cameras and perhaps even blamed the mistake on analog when it was just their misunderstanding of basic video application.
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#9 Kim Walker

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 04:27 PM

24P normal and 24PA only exist when shooting in DV NTSC mode. You won't be given this option in HDV mode - just a frame rate choice of 24, 25 or 30. If you intend to do a filmout at some point shoot HDV-24P mode.
In HDV mode these two separate types of pulldown aren't necessary because 720P60 records 60 progressive frames instead of splitting 24P across 60 fields like NTSC or 1080i. Therefore a standard 2:3 pulldown is used for 720P60, but you will never encounter a split-field pulldown frame.

Most of the current NLEs are now capable of capturing 720P24 and ignoring the repeated pulldown frames, but not Avid Express Pro (as of Dec 2006.) You should explore other options. Avid has been promising full support of JVC's ProHD since NAB2005, but their band-aid solution seems to be the acquistion of Liquid.

Hi Tim,
So Tim are you saying I can't shoot 24PA and edit it for a possible filmout on Avid Express Pro? You mentioned shooting in HDV-24P. Someone who owns the same JVC 100U camera suggested I shoot in 24PA and he has an older version of Avid Express. I'm a little confused. Ideally I would like to shoot in HD 24P or A and prepare it for possible filmout if a distributor wanted to make prints and or go directly to DVD and broadcast television. Thanks.
Kim
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