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I want 125 iso


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#1 Mr. Macgregor

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 02:14 PM

After doing some tests, i need a film stock rated at around 125 iso for 5600º light.

However this tock does not exist. The kodak 50d stock is obiously too low to be used. The 250d might give more grain than what i want, and an extra stop that i dont really want to use.

I could use the 200T with an 85filter so i would get 125 iso, however the grain between 250D and 200T might be the same, and the extra glass in front of the lense is something to avoid in order to get the sharpest images.

So what do you recommend me?

Edited by macgregor, 16 August 2006 - 02:15 PM.

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#2 Stephen Williams

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 02:24 PM

After doing some tests, i need a film stock rated at around 125 iso for 5600º light.

However this tock does not exist. The kodak 50d stock is obiously too low to be used. The 250d might give more grain than what i want, and an extra stop that i dont really want to use.

I could use the 200T with an 85filter so i would get 125 iso, however the grain between 250D and 200T might be the same, and the extra glass in front of the lense is something to avoid in order to get the sharpest images.

So what do you recommend me?


Hi,

Arw you shooting 16 or 35?
I have used 5217 + 85 filter, the grain is really low. You could always just overexpose the 250D 1 stop.
I don't think you will notice any loss of sharpness from 1 filter.

Stephen
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#3 Mr. Macgregor

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 02:26 PM

Hi,

Arw you shooting 16 or 35?
I have used 5217 + 85 filter, the grain is really low. You could always just overexpose the 250D 1 stop.
I don't think you will notice any loss of sharpness from 1 filter.

Stephen



Super 35mm and later DI.
Right now i think 250D is the way to go and use a ND filter.
But i could be wrong.
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#4 Dan Horstman

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 02:30 PM

Super 35mm and later DI.
Right now i think 250D is the way to go and use a ND filter.
But i could be wrong.


Personally I'd overexpose the 250D by one stop. The grain should be very low and overexposure will give you depth into the shadows.
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#5 Mr. Macgregor

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 02:34 PM

Personally I'd overexpose the 250D by one stop. The grain should be very low and overexposure will give you depth into the shadows.



Hold on. I am in this location. Do you think it is a good idea to over expose so much?

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#6 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 03:32 PM

After doing some tests, i need a film stock rated at around 125 iso for 5600º light.

However this tock does not exist. The kodak 50d stock is obiously too low to be used. The 250d might give more grain than what i want, and an extra stop that i dont really want to use.

I could use the 200T with an 85filter so i would get 125 iso, however the grain between 250D and 200T might be the same, and the extra glass in front of the lense is something to avoid in order to get the sharpest images.

So what do you recommend me?


I feel your best option would be to use KODAK VISION2 250D Color Negative Film 5205/7205. If you give it up to a stop of overexposure (i.e., rate it at EI 125D), you will get even finer grain, and still have plenty of overexposure latitude to capture the highlights.

Using KODAK VISION2 200T Color Negative Film 5217/7217 with an 85 filter will give fine images too, but likely will have a bit more graininess than the 250D rated at EI 125D.
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#7 Dan Horstman

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 04:09 PM

Hold on. I am in this location. Do you think it is a good idea to over expose so much?


One stop over is not a lot. Many DPs over expose one stop as a rule.

The whole room being white might be a problem. You will want to do reflected meter readings from everything to see how they will show up. I am thinking that it will be very difficult to hold detail on all that white and still expose your actors faces correctly with any film stock no matter how you rate it.

I would say shoot some tests before you do your real shoot.

Edited by Dan Horstman, 16 August 2006 - 04:10 PM.

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#8 Mr. Macgregor

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 04:13 PM

I went and did test today. I hope i can see results tomorrow.

However, i think overexposing 1 stop will make all details in the white wall to disappear even when you try to recover it during DI. A white wall overexposed 1 stop is far from a grey card i think.

What i did was to use 200T +85 which gives 125iso, but i just set the lightmeter to 100iso, so that is a bit overexposure but not too much.
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#9 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 04:24 PM

I went and did test today. I hope i can see results tomorrow.

However, i think overexposing 1 stop will make all details in the white wall to disappear even when you try to recover it during DI. A white wall overexposed 1 stop is far from a grey card i think.

What i did was to use 200T +85 which gives 125iso, but i just set the lightmeter to 100iso, so that is a bit overexposure but not too much.


Using the 200T with the 85 and a bit of overexposure is fine. But one stop over with 5205 is well within the latitude of the film, even with a "high key" scene with lots of light areas.
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#10 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 08:11 PM

Since this is an interior, I don't understand why you can't just use 250D and stop down some more if needed, or if not that, use an ND filter.

It's rather nitpicky to say that 50D is too slow but 250D is too fast and what you need is for Kodak to also make a 125D! There are these things called "f-stops" that allow us to compensate for different ASA stocks...

However, if you really need that speed in daylight balance, there is always 100D Ektachrome 5285.
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#11 Mr. Macgregor

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 05:09 AM

hahha, I understand what you mean David.

My answer is:
from 50d to 250 D theres is a big step in grain. Whith white environments grain seem to be more noticeable to me. Therefore i want the smallest grain. :)

Edited by macgregor, 17 August 2006 - 05:10 AM.

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#12 Chris Burke

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 06:55 AM

hahha, I understand what you mean David.

My answer is:
from 50d to 250 D theres is a big step in grain. Whith white environments grain seem to be more noticeable to me. Therefore i want the smallest grain. :)



Try Eterna 250D, it is finer grain than the vision 2. How did your test come out? Are you pleased with what you got?

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#13 Mr. Macgregor

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 06:58 AM

Try Eterna 250D, it is finer grain than the vision 2. How did your test come out? Are you pleased with what you got?

chris



I will tell you tonight when i get the tapes.

Changing to fuji now, uhmmmm. Did you read a review that said that it had less grain or you are telling me your own opinion? What about latitude and colors in the 250D?
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#14 Chris Burke

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 07:12 AM

I will tell you tonight when i get the tapes.

Changing to fuji now, uhmmmm. Did you read a review that said that it had less grain or you are telling me your own opinion? What about latitude and colors in the 250D?



My own experience. I am just finishing post on a Super 16 short and we used both the 250T and 250D. I am very pleased with the stock. I can see no grain in any of our shots. We did have one shot that was done at the end of the day and probably 2 or 3 stops under and that showed grain. We reshot and all is well. The latitude is fantastic as well as the colors being top knotch. I say all this only having seen a best light that we are editing to on a 13 Sony monitor. I can barely wait until we do our DI. I will post the results here along with screen grabs. That should be in a few weeks. Modern stocks these days really have come a long way and don't show much grain at all. For a daylight lit interior such as yours, stick with a 250D stock, you will love it.
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#15 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 02:45 PM

My own experience. I am just finishing post on a Super 16 short and we used both the 250T and 250D. I am very pleased with the stock. I can see no grain in any of our shots. We did have one shot that was done at the end of the day and probably 2 or 3 stops under and that showed grain. We reshot and all is well. The latitude is fantastic as well as the colors being top knotch. I say all this only having seen a best light that we are editing to on a 13 Sony monitor. I can barely wait until we do our DI. I will post the results here along with screen grabs. That should be in a few weeks. Modern stocks these days really have come a long way and don't show much grain at all. For a daylight lit interior such as yours, stick with a 250D stock, you will love it.


I caution about making any definitive judgement about sharpness or graininess just looking at a "best light" image on a 13-inch monitor. On a big screen, no film has finer grain than the KODAK VISION2 50D Color Negative Film 5201. And the VISION2 250D 5205 compares favorably, given that it is over two stops faster.
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#16 Mr. Macgregor

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 09:52 AM

I caution about making any definitive judgement about sharpness or graininess just looking at a "best light" image on a 13-inch monitor. On a big screen, no film has finer grain than the KODAK VISION2 50D Color Negative Film 5201. And the VISION2 250D 5205 compares favorably, given that it is over two stops faster.

.



At last I got the test footage that i shot with the 200T film stock and cooke lenses set at f2.0 and 2.8. It´s in DVcam so i cannot expect to judge resolution but i think latitude was very good.
I can see horizontal movement. I hope it comes from the telecine and not from the camera itself.

video 1 1Mb

video 2 2 Mb
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#17 Stephen Williams

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 10:15 AM

.
At last I got the test footage that i shot with the 200T film stock and cooke lenses set at f2.0 and 2.8. It´s in DVcam so i cannot expect to judge resolution but i think latitude was very good.
I can see horizontal movement. I hope it comes from the telecine and not from the camera itself.

video 1 1Mb

video 2 2 Mb


Hi,

Looks like telecine weave IMHO. The only way to know for sure is a 2 pass steady test of the camera. What was the camera speed? sometimes at higher speeds you need to add sandbags to the camera and tripod as the camera can vibrate.
If you scan the images on a scanner the film will be registered by the perfs in the same way as the Arri 435 so it should be perfectly steady.

Stephen
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