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old stock donation, super 16 sprockets


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#1 Miska Draskoczy

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 09:50 AM

Hi,

I just had about 5000 feet of 16mm and 5000ft of 35mm recans and short ends donated to me from a production company's old fridges. Here are most of the stock and years the cans are from, when known:

7298 EXR 500T 1994-1996
7293 EXR 200T 1996
7248 EXR 100T 1996
7245 EXR 50D 1994
7297 250D

7279 VISION 500T 1998
7277 VISION 320T 2004
7289 VISION 800T 2002

5298 EXR 500T 1996-1997
5279 VISION 500T 1998-2002
5246 VISION 250D 2002

The vision I'm not too worried about, I'm familiar with its look and most of it isn't too old. The majority of the stock is the old EXRs, particularly 7298/93/48 and 5298.

My first question is, is the 7298 from 1994/96 and onwards double or single sprocketed? I looked on the cans, some of which don't have labels anyway, and coulnd't find any way to determine this. I'd like to shoot super16 if possible. Is there any way to find this out short of cutting off a test piece of film? Should I do that anyway to be on the safe side? I think most of the loader's labels have the emulsion batch numbers if its possible to look it up that way.

Second, how different are the older EXR stocks in look? I'm assuming they are probably more contrasty and grainier than the newer vision stocks. Will I have a hard time matching them in telecine if I decide to mix stocks? Will the grain of the 7298 be really noticeable, even if I'm going for an SD finish? For any of the 16mm, I'd plan to shoot on a decent camera with modern glass (i.e. not a bolex) and transfer on a Spirit. Or use it for a project that is supposed to have an 'older' look...

Last, is there a significant risk in shooting stock this old? As far as I know its been sitting undisturbed in a fridge this whole time and it all looks to be well labelled and handled. I don't think I'd shoot anything critical with it, more like b-roll, time lapse, experiments...

Thanks for your help

-miska
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#2 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 11:15 AM

See this thread about shooting old film:

http://www.cinematog...showtopic=16181

All the 16mm stock you have is single perf.
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#3 Dan Horstman

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 11:35 AM

All the 16mm stock you have is single perf.


Not true. (unless you are the person who gave Miska the film) I have some 7293 that is double perf. I had some 7245 that was double. Any of the stocks you have could be double perf.

You should send all this film to a lab for end tests. They will clip off a couple feet from the head, process it and then read the density. You can compare the results with the factory numbers. We have them here at Colorlab and most labs should have them. If not you can get them from Kodak.

If you want to send them here to me at Colorlab, we do end tests for free. (in hopes that when you acutally shoot the film that you will send it to us for processing)

As far as mixing them. I would say you will be ok. I just shot some 7293 (over exposed one stop so the grain was reduced and the age fog was cut through) and it cut in just fine with Vision stock. I haven't compared it to Vision 2 stocks.

Edited by Dan Horstman, 17 August 2006 - 11:38 AM.

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#4 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 02:49 PM

I agree with Dan that you should have your lab "clip test" each roll. Not only will this tell you if there is any fog increase from age or radiation, but it will positively identify the perforation type. Kodak still sells 16mm perforated both 1R-2994 (single perf) and 2R-2994 (double perf).

Expect that the old EXR films will have more grain, both due to their age and being older technology without the tremendous grain improvements of the VISION2 technology. Even refrigerated, the faster films can be affected by ambient radiation after a long period of time.
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#5 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 06:22 PM

Well, N16 has been a dead format for more than 20 years in the dual perf mode - that was a special order. I'm willing to bet my hat on that all the film he's got is single perf.
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#6 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 10:26 PM

Well, N16 has been a dead format for more than 20 years in the dual perf mode - that was a special order. I'm willing to bet my hat on that all the film he's got is single perf.

Until a few years ago double was default fo r a lot of stock until Super16 caught fire, as it was universal- runs in any camera for "regualr"16.

The clip tests will certainly tell, the lab can be asked to return them, and you can just look! (they typicaly will put one "twin check" on the can, another matching one on the test strip) Some labs have the habit of taping a six inch length with the results right to the can in that case you will have a definate label to find the double perf stock (if any)
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#7 Dan Horstman

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 10:33 AM

Well, N16 has been a dead format for more than 20 years in the dual perf mode - that was a special order. I'm willing to bet my hat on that all the film he's got is single perf.


What is N16? Never heard of it.

I just spooled down a roll of 7279 from 2000 this morning. It was double perf and I know it wasn't a special order.

I'll take that bet. What kind of hat are you putting up as stakes. I have a couple hats I would be willing to part with should I lose.

Miska get that film checked out and let us know.
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#8 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 12:45 PM

What is N16? Never heard of it.


N16 is the ISO (International Standards) designation for 16mm camera perfs (N=Negative):
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#9 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 04:25 PM

What is N16? Never heard of it.

I just spooled down a roll of 7279 from 2000 this morning. It was double perf and I know it wasn't a special order.

I'll take that bet. What kind of hat are you putting up as stakes. I have a couple hats I would be willing to part with should I lose.

Miska get that film checked out and let us know.


I'll qualify that by mentioning that there might be a difference between the US and Europe in this regard and that double perf was somehow more common there and on the market longer, but I'll take the bet anyway, since I don't have many hats.. :P

I started loading in 1995 and never had an encounter with double perf 16mm film.

Oh, and John, I was referring to Normal 16 as N16 (as oppsed to super 16 as S16) - but if I by pure luck happened to hit upon some international standards nomenclature, then that was completely unintentional.
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#10 Dan Horstman

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 04:48 PM

but I'll take the bet anyway, since I don't have many hats.. :P



Sweet! Miska get that film checked out...daddy needs a new hat. :lol:
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#11 Miska Draskoczy

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 05:04 PM

thanks everyone for the help and great info. I think I will indeed be taking the film to the lab to get it all checked out... and then on to shooting...:)

-miska
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