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Low budget feature on FX1


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#1 Janez Stucin

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 02:15 PM

Dear members,

I hope I'm posting this topic on the right place?

I was invited to shoot a low budget feature film on SONY FX1 which is later going to be transfered to 35mm for theatrical release. I've done many projects on FX1 but have never had the opurtunity to transfer it to 35mm. Mind that we have no possibility to do any tests before shooting. I wouldn't be posting my questions here if I would have the oppurtunity to make any kind of tests.

I'm familiar with the menu setups and other in camera features but now I'm concerned how should I set up my camera to get the best results possible on 35mm. I know that many of the features are satisfactory for PAL TV but I'm not sure how they will work when 35mm is in question.

The movie will be a hostage action flick with many fast pans, tilts, handheld and steadicam shots.

So, I'm asking any member here on this site if you have any useful and tested info on how to set up the camera so that I can achieve best results for the 35mm transfer.

Producer has also introduced to me the Redrock Mocro adapter and is trying to persuade me to shoot with nikon photographic lenses. I'm not so sure that it is the best idea since there is loss in sharpnes of image when using such adapter, or so was I told. Any info on that matter? Is the image really sharper without the adapter or not. What happens with the F-stop when using it?

I would apreciate any help on this matter and I thank you for your time spent on this topic.

JS
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#2 Matt Sandstrom

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 10:55 AM

i've recently done the same and i'm yet to see the results. the advice i got and followed though was to shoot interlaced, cinegamma type 1, black stretch off, sharpness low (i used 4 i think. tried 0 on a short but it turned out a little soft. this is not the sharpest lens out there), skintone detail low, stabilizer soft, basically i used all "image enhancements" available but at their lowest settings. the most important advice was to always get exposure in the shadows. hdv gets noisy as hell when there's no light. to achieve this we gained 6db throughout. the uniform noise this created is far more pleasing than dancing dct artifacts. this is a slow camera and with the adapter it becomes even slower of course. you have to zoom in with most adapters, whch limits the f-stop, plus there are now two apertures stealing light, and more glass. lots and lots of light will be needed. i wouldn't worry about the sharpness though.

/matt
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#3 Janez Stucin

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 05:22 AM

i've recently done the same and i'm yet to see the results. the advice i got and followed though was to shoot interlaced, cinegamma type 1, black stretch off, sharpness low (i used 4 i think. tried 0 on a short but it turned out a little soft. this is not the sharpest lens out there), skintone detail low, stabilizer soft, basically i used all "image enhancements" available but at their lowest settings. the most important advice was to always get exposure in the shadows. hdv gets noisy as hell when there's no light. to achieve this we gained 6db throughout. the uniform noise this created is far more pleasing than dancing dct artifacts. this is a slow camera and with the adapter it becomes even slower of course. you have to zoom in with most adapters, whch limits the f-stop, plus there are now two apertures stealing light, and more glass. lots and lots of light will be needed. i wouldn't worry about the sharpness though.

/matt


Thank you Matt and sorry fur such a late response. I was away for couple of weeks. Your advice is very useful however I'm using the FX1 that has no black stretch in fact many menues aren't that advanced as in Z1. Anyways, I've talked to the post company where I'm going to do the color correction and their advice too was to shoot interlace but they said that I shuld turn off gain and all other image enhancers and try to keep, as much as I can, all the details in whites.

I'd be more than happy if you could notify when you see your results.

I still can't decide whether to use Redrockmicro adtapter and nikkon lenses or not. I love the depth of field but it is really ackward to use.
I still have a problem with image on the LCD being flipped horizontaly and verticaly and we are unable to correct this thing. It is almost impossible to frame a shot with LCD image turned up side down. Does anyone know how we could bypass or correct this?

zu
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#4 Matt Sandstrom

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 10:59 AM

i'd use some image enhancing settings still. the post company probably don't quite realize that since hdv is heavily compressed it's slightly harder to manipulate in post than even dv. some slight sharpness and the correct gamma curve before compression will help. same goes for gain. gaining hdv in post looks much much worse than in camera. if you don't need it to get an exposure though by all means don't use it. don't worry about missing functions. black stretch off is the default on the fx1, and the cinegamma is the same as type one on the z1.

I still have a problem with image on the LCD being flipped horizontaly and verticaly and we are unable to correct this thing. It is almost impossible to frame a shot with LCD image turned up side down. Does anyone know how we could bypass or correct this?


many/most small/cheap lcd monitors have a function to flip the image. that's what i'd use. make sure it supports 16:9 though. i don't think the sd output on the fx1 is letterboxed.

as for my results the film's being offlined now, so it won't be until this winter that we'll start experimenting with the 35mm blow-up, but i'll try to post some full res hdv stills for you soon.

/matt
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#5 Michael J. Murphy

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 03:14 PM

Just a quick curious question:
Janez, when you say you're transferring your FX1 video to 35mm film, will the final product be displayed on a TV or a theatre screen? I'd be very interested to see how a FX1/Z1 does in a thatre environment.

Mike
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#6 Janez Stucin

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 10:23 AM

Just a quick curious question:
Janez, when you say you're transferring your FX1 video to 35mm film, will the final product be displayed on a TV or a theatre screen? I'd be very interested to see how a FX1/Z1 does in a thatre environment.

Mike


It will be transfered to 35mm for theatrical release and later maybe we'll put it on DVD. When I'll have some final release footage I'll send you a link or some frames, but that is far from theatre. I'm not quite sure if the movie will be screend in your country. Anyways, let's keep in touch and I'll try to do my best for you to see the results.

JS
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#7 Thanasis Diamantopoulos

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 02:31 PM

Hi i have done last year tree projects using fx1. All the projects transfered to film 35 mm. I had used 50i not cf25 witch looks very bad on the big screen. CF is good for dvds. I transfered the project to 25 frames 35mm film not 24.( europe - pal). Picture sharpnes 3 , cinegamma on the first on but on the other two of and the resalts looks better. color phase closer to green and i thing color gain 5 or 6 depents from the scene. I have done a lot of test and the resalts dint make me happy.
The tests from progressive cameras like panny and jvc looks alot better for transfer to film.BTW Dont be afraid of the color during the shooting or the post, hdv cameras (411 or 420) are loosing alot while transfering to film. I agree that you must get exposure in the dark shadows. In some scenes of the first project i gained up 3 and 6db and the noise was making the image very soft. Try that lighting and not by the gain.

Hi i have done last year tree projects using fx1. All the projects transfered to film 35 mm. I had used 50i not cf25 witch looks very bad on the big screen. CF is good for dvds. I transfered the project to 25 frames 35mm film not 24.( europe - pal). Picture sharpnes 3 , cinegamma on the first on but on the other two of and the resalts looks better. color phase closer to green and i thing color gain 5 or 6 depents from the scene. I have done a lot of test and the resalts dint make me happy.
The tests from progressive cameras like panny and jvc looks alot better for transfer to film.BTW Dont be afraid of the color during the shooting or the post, hdv cameras (411 or 420) are loosing alot while transfering to film. I agree that you must get exposure in the dark shadows. In some scenes of the first project i gained up 3 and 6db and the noise was making the image very soft. Try that lighting and not by the gain.
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#8 Matt Sandstrom

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 10:52 AM

funny, i didn't realize you were in ljubljana. i just came back from croatia where we shot some second unit stuff for our feature. split, pag and pula, the latter very close to you i think.

/matt
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#9 Janez Stucin

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 07:32 AM

funny, i didn't realize you were in ljubljana. i just came back from croatia where we shot some second unit stuff for our feature. split, pag and pula, the latter very close to you i think.

/matt



Yes I am form Ljubljana and Pula is the closest Croatian city to Ljubljana. I hope you did some fine footage there. You should come to Slovenia to make some footage or maybe even make a movie. It's a small country but a vaste outdoor studio. From alps to seaside in one hour and a half. I mean you can get from one part of the country to another in max 3 hours and the country is diverse.

Oh, and btw. for which feature did you shoot in CRO?



Hi i have done last year tree projects using fx1. All the projects transfered to film 35 mm. I had used 50i not cf25 witch looks very bad on the big screen. CF is good for dvds. I transfered the project to 25 frames 35mm film not 24.( europe - pal). Picture sharpnes 3 , cinegamma on the first on but on the other two of and the resalts looks better. color phase closer to green and i thing color gain 5 or 6 depents from the scene. I have done a lot of test and the resalts dint make me happy.
The tests from progressive cameras like panny and jvc looks alot better for transfer to film.BTW Dont be afraid of the color during the shooting or the post, hdv cameras (411 or 420) are loosing alot while transfering to film. I agree that you must get exposure in the dark shadows. In some scenes of the first project i gained up 3 and 6db and the noise was making the image very soft. Try that lighting and not by the gain.

Hi i have done last year tree projects using fx1. All the projects transfered to film 35 mm. I had used 50i not cf25 witch looks very bad on the big screen. CF is good for dvds. I transfered the project to 25 frames 35mm film not 24.( europe - pal). Picture sharpnes 3 , cinegamma on the first on but on the other two of and the resalts looks better. color phase closer to green and i thing color gain 5 or 6 depents from the scene. I have done a lot of test and the resalts dint make me happy.
The tests from progressive cameras like panny and jvc looks alot better for transfer to film.BTW Dont be afraid of the color during the shooting or the post, hdv cameras (411 or 420) are loosing alot while transfering to film. I agree that you must get exposure in the dark shadows. In some scenes of the first project i gained up 3 and 6db and the noise was making the image very soft. Try that lighting and not by the gain.


Thanasis thank you very much for your information. I will definitely look into it try to do some test, if possible, with your settings. I know that Panasonic or JVC have progresive mode and would be a better choice to use one of those but I'm affraid I'll have to do it with FX1.

PS - I know a guy from Athens whos name is also Thanasis. Coincidence?
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Ritter Battery

Visual Products

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Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Glidecam

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

rebotnix Technologies

Rig Wheels Passport

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Wooden Camera

Aerial Filmworks

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